The End of The World?

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

At least the Christians have given you room to live the life you choose, we should take a moment and thank those old dead white guys for getting the freedom ball rolling.

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Hey... I'm not debating that America is a great place to live, but I think as a country we're a bit jaded as to how we got to where we are. Old dead white guys established a government designed to keep the rich minority rich and the poor majority poor. It's only over the next 200+ years that the mid/lower class got some rights to speak of, if any.

If things were still the way the Old Dead White Guys designed them, we'd be in a world of hurt right now, Christian or otherwise. How many of us would be in the 5-10% rich, land-owning majority?

Read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".

"That'll blow your hair back."
(to quote Good Will Hunting)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Well depending on what part of which epistle you read it seems so but there is a list of offenses that are common to many people whatever their religious persuasion that Paul and other apostles say will exclude them from 'inheriting the kingdom of God'. Reading 1Corinthians 6:9 I wonder if the new covenant applies ?

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Would these people be the unrepentant? Jesus covers all sin that is confessed and turned away from. The unrepentant die in their sin, the repentant are released from it.

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Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

Hey... I'm not debating that America is a great place to live, but I think as a country we're a bit jaded as to how we got to where we are. Old dead white guys established a government designed to keep the rich minority rich and the poor majority poor. It's only over the next 200+ years that the mid/lower class got some rights to speak of, if any.

If things were still the way the Old Dead White Guys designed them, we'd be in a world of hurt right now, Christian or otherwise. How many of us would be in the 5-10% rich, land-owning majority?

Read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".

"That'll blow your hair back."
(to quote Good Will Hunting)

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With a great part of a continent lying at their feet they must have known it was a matter of time until everyone who wished it would be a landowner.Please do some further study on the sacrifices these people made, not all of them came out of the conflict smelling like roses, as a matter of fact many of them never recovered their losses either due to the conflict or due to public service afterward, both Washington and Jefferson as well as others never overcame the debts they incurred due to their servitude to the idea of Liberty. This should humble all of us.

I apologize to the OP for hijacking (which I do often, I'm sorry to say). As such, I'm starting a new thread on American History and the Founding Fathers. It's unfortunate that as school kids we got a biased picture of these guys. Look for my new thread.

"History is the Memory of States."
~Henry Kissinger

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

With a great part of a continent lying at their feet they must have known it was a matter of time until everyone who wished it would be a landowner.Please do some further study on the sacrifices these people made, not all of them came out of the conflict smelling like roses, as a matter of fact many of them never recovered their losses either due to the conflict or due to public service afterward, both Washington and Jefferson as well as others never overcame the debts they incurred due to their servitude to the idea of Liberty. This should humble all of us.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

With a great part of a continent lying at their feet they must have known it was a matter of time until everyone who wished it would be a landowner.Please do some further study on the sacrifices these people made, not all of them came out of the conflict smelling like roses, as a matter of fact many of them never recovered their losses either due to the conflict or due to public service afterward, both Washington and Jefferson as well as others never overcame the debts they incurred due to their servitude to the idea of Liberty. This should humble all of us.

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In the interest of fairness and accuracy, Jefferson died in debt not because of his public service but because of his uncontrollable impulse spending. A very complex individual, Jefferson cautioned his daughter never to spend what you don't have in your pocket, but never held back when buying books he could not afford. This resulted in a voluminous library and huge personal debt. He also spend a fortune he didn't have, deigning and constructing Monticello.

As to the argument that the founding fathers sought to better themselves at the expense of the poor, Jefferson's solution to the question of the masses being too ignorant to make informed decisions was to provide the education, not lament the lack of it. This doesn't sound like a man intent on keeping the poor in poverty. Franklin was appalled at the disgusting level of poverty the Empire forced upon the Irish by excessive taxes, a condition he did not want to see in his own new nation. John Adams was a farmer before and after his presidency and not always a well off one.

So, that being said, is the world coming to an end or isn't it?

I'd say no, it absolutely is not. And anybody who heeds the premonitions of Sarah Palin ought to have their own heads examined :) >

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Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

It's only over the next 200+ years that the mid/lower class got some rights to speak of, if any.

If things were still the way the Old Dead White Guys designed them, we'd be in a world of hurt right now, Christian or otherwise. How many of us would be in the 5-10% rich, land-owning majority?

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I disagree. Their design was such that the "way" things are can be modified. And, pursuant to their design, they have been.

What does this have to do with someone who will make policy decisions based on end-of-the-world beliefs? :D

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I disagree. Their design was such that the "way" things are can be modified. And, pursuant to their design, they have been.

What does this have to do with someone who will make policy decisions based on end-of-the-world beliefs? :D

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Yes, we have gotten a bit off topic(s), haven't we?

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Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

Hey... I'm not debating that America is a great place to live, but I think as a country we're a bit jaded as to how we got to where we are. Old dead white guys established a government designed to keep the rich minority rich and the poor majority poor. It's only over the next 200+ years that the mid/lower class got some rights to speak of, if any.

If things were still the way the Old Dead White Guys designed them, we'd be in a world of hurt right now, Christian or otherwise. How many of us would be in the 5-10% rich, land-owning majority?

Read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".

"That'll blow your hair back."
(to quote Good Will Hunting)

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I have read it, and its so called "facts" are not 100% because research for books like that are flawed. The book also has the most liberal ideals and cynical spin to it possible. It will blow your hair back, but like every other book in history, more of its text is educated supposition than cold hard fact.
I agree we are jaded, but no more than any other country has been. I do not recall many stories of peasants in Europe or the UK rising to become powerful. I also do not recall any stories of peasants becoming Billionaires like Sam Walton, or Bill Gates.
The ability to rise to any position you seek so long as you are willing to do whatever it takes, is what makes the US a great country.

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Originally Posted by billyjeff2

I trust the posing of this question will not raise any religious or political issues...:)

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:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: