Thread: Unconstitutional Action and Gun Laws

Originally Posted by sffone

And let's remember, folks, that the Founding Fathers were convinced that we needed the Second Amendment not just to protect ourselves from "bad guys" but also from our own government. They fully realized that government needs to be kept in check.

You've given me an idea for a potentially interesting thread. Here it is.

Originally Posted by AussiePostie

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that these weapons with a little knowhow and the right information could easily be converted back to fully auto. As to the killing power of these weapons I would suggest that anyone using these is not trying to take out a target at 1000 metres range.Proberly more like 100 metres, and who needs accuracy and power to kill at 100 metres or less when your on full auto? Basically those weapons were designed to kill people and nothing more, certainly were not made for hunting or sports shooting!

This goes to show how little you know about guns & before you spout off at the mouth, you should know what you are talking about. I deer hunt with all of my AR-15's. Two are in .223, one in 7.62x39 (same as an AK, same ballistics as a Winchester 30-30), and one in .458 SOCOM. The SOCOM was developed just for our soldiers, but guess what, it has the same bullet and ballistics as a 45-70. It is the best deer and hog rifle I own out to 150 yds. One of my .223's is match built my none other than me. Check out Camp Pendelton rifle matches, the best shooters around compete there & guess what most use...that's right, a match grade AR-15 & they shoot just a little further than 100 meters. I can place 10 shots inside of 1/2 inch at 100 yds & keep all 10 rounds inside an 8" pie plate at 600 yds as long as I do my part. Your car could kill people just as easily, just as fast, and just as many as one of my AR's. My tractor with the brush hog could be "converted" to a people killer, wanna outlaw it too??? Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I know my guns pretty well, better know your stuff before you try to bluff yourself out of this one. My tractor IS dangerous too...

Originally Posted by AussiePostie

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that these weapons with a little knowhow and the right information could easily be converted back to fully auto. As to the killing power of these weapons I would suggest that anyone using these is not trying to take out a target at 1000 metres range.Proberly more like 100 metres, and who needs accuracy and power to kill at 100 metres or less when your on full auto? Basically those weapons were designed to kill people and nothing more, certainly were not made for hunting or sports shooting!

Actuallly, it is somewhat more difficult than you might think, but even if it were easy, it is illegal. So your original statement that it is legal for ordinary citizens to own military grade weapons is still false. Individuals can own certain military grade weapons provided they have the appropriate firearms dealers license. It is expensive, somewhat difficult to obtain and it gives the government considerable access to what most would consider their private affairs. The semiautomatic AR-15 is in fact one of the most popular sporting rifles in use in the USA, used for target practice, competition, and various types of small game hunting. An AK-47 firing 7.62x39 (semi automatic of course) amunition is legal for hunting game up to dear size in many locations (though there may be some limitations on the magazine capacity used in this application). The 7.62x39 round is approximately equal to a .30-.30 round fired by lever action hunting rifles, and considerably less effective than the .30-06 (7.62x63) or .308 winchester (7.62x51) ammunition used in a great many hunting rifles (many of which are also semi-automatic). There is a semi automatic sproting rifle sold by Strum-Ruger that fires .223 Remingtion just like the AR-15, with screwdriver, about 30 minutes of time and a US$100 stock conversion kit it can be converted into something that looks very much like an AR-15, has this sporting rifle now become a military grade rifle? Was it always a military grade rifle?

Also, the standard sniper rifle used by the US Army and Marines is no more than a Remington 700 chambered in either .30-06 or .308. These same rifles are among the most popular hunting rifles available. Are they military grade? Better than military grade (since the military actually adopted them because of their superior accuracy and range over the military rifles previously used by snipers.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

This goes to show how little you know about guns & before you spout off at the mouth, you should know what you are talking about.

. . . people kill people moron.

I thought this thread had lasted pretty well, but there is always a time when people get a little too involved. Oh well.

Originally Posted by gregs656

I thought this thread had lasted pretty well, but there is always a time when people get a little too involved. Oh well.

I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm passionate about being a proud Christian & firearms huh? The moron part was uncalled for...but I stand by everything else. Will edit post...

Good man.

I don't think people are going to like this, but it's interesting. I do believe there is some merit in the idea that people should stand up against their governments, I also believe that you do not nessercerily need guns to do this, and the French are superb at getting the govt to bend to their will with little more than home made molotov ****tails, trucks, and sometimes a few big old boats. Anyway, it is interesting that in this country and probably in the states as well, you would now be deemed a terrorist for commiting a violent act against your govt. One mans freedom fighter truely is another mans terrorist.

Here is my overall impression after having lived in the US for two years. Before that I lived in Norway and Ethiopia for five years as a kid.
Any society wich already has got a lot of guns is really hard to "demilitarize" and if an effort is made to take away the guns, you will end up with only the criminals having guns. So we have a dilemma there, cause the americans here seems to think europeans should stock up on guns while the europeans thinks the americans should get rid of theirs.
There is a major difference in culture and thoughts when it comes to guns: in the US a gun is primarily a weapon and its uses are: self defense, target-practice and hunting, in that order.
In Europe a gun is a tool, people use it for hunting primarily, then target-practice. Some people will use it for self defense inside their houses, but for most people it is a tool and they won't even think about using it for defense.
In Ethiopia a AK cost around $10 and they were all full auto. you would see people everywhere carrying and it was generally ok. But they had a lot more shootings and stuff, especially in the big cities, we even had to have bulletproof shades in front of our windows during night. We would hear full auto fire every few nights when the people would stand up against the government in the spirit of the second amendment. The strange thing is that when my american friends see this kind of stuff on the news, they start talking about "damn commies, we should go over and get them" so it is not ok for the people to bear arms if they are poor or if they have leftist politic views?

Originally Posted by flyboy

Here is my overall impression after having lived in the US for two years. Before that I lived in Norway and Ethiopia for five years as a kid.
Any society wich already has got a lot of guns is really hard to "demilitarize" and if an effort is made to take away the guns, you will end up with only the criminals having guns.

I agree with you completely here.


[/QUOTE]So we have a dilemma there, cause the americans here seems to think europeans should stock up on guns while the europeans thinks the americans should get rid of theirs.
There is a major difference in culture and thoughts when it comes to guns: in the US a gun is primarily a weapon and its uses are: self defense, target-practice and hunting, in that order. [/QUOTE]

This is obviously your opinion and not American's as a whole. The best weapon for self-defense is a prepared mind. The most dangerous weapon in the WORLD is the mind. THE FACT IS more triggers are pulled here in the U.S. daily in THIS order: target practice, hunting, and very minimally in self-defense. Yes, we shoot a lot, hunt quite a bit, but will defend ourselves if NEED BE. I'd defend my family with whatever I could put my hands on at that time, no matter if it's a umbrella, kitchen knife, hammer, you get my point.

[/QUOTE] In Europe a gun is a tool, people use it for hunting primarily, then target-practice. Some people will use it for self defense inside their houses, but for most people it is a tool and they won't even think about using it for defense. [/QUOTE]

I'm no European, but those that I do know aren't pansies & would defend themselves and their families just as I would.

[/QUOTE]In Ethiopia a AK cost around $10 and they were all full auto. you would see people everywhere carrying and it was generally ok. But they had a lot more shootings and stuff, especially in the big cities, we even had to have bulletproof shades in front of our windows during night. We would hear full auto fire every few nights when the people would stand up against the government in the spirit of the second amendment. The strange thing is that when my american friends see this kind of stuff on the news, they start talking about "damn commies, we should go over and get them" so it is not ok for the people to bear arms if they are poor or if they have leftist politic views?[/QUOTE]

I wonder if your American friends are Veterans & have ever had to go "Go get them"? Why in the world would we want to "Go get them" just because they have a rifle? We have enough problems here in the U.S., spending lives & $$$ to impose our "will" on another country is, IMO, none of our business.

Originally Posted by gregs656

Good man.

I don't think people are going to like this, but it's interesting. I do believe there is some merit in the idea that people should stand up against their governments, I also believe that you do not nessercerily need guns to do this, and the French are superb at getting the govt to bend to their will with little more than home made molotov ****tails, trucks, and sometimes a few big old boats. Anyway, it is interesting that in this country and probably in the states as well, you would now be deemed a terrorist for commiting a violent act against your govt. One mans freedom fighter truely is another mans terrorist.

We have had movements in the USA that tried to go against the government. The Black Panther Party being a relatively recent example. They didn't make out very well to say the least. Not saying that they should have BTW... Our government has proved to have people working for them that are ruthless when they feel they have to be. The way the world is today I guess that is a good thing. The civil rights movement OTOH was by and large a demonstration of how passive resistance can change a society.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The civil rights movement OTOH was by and large a demonstration of how passive resistance can change a society.

Sure, I'm not saying every 'freedom fighting' group is right, but stuff like the LA riots and the more regular french blockades and riots in Paris, episodes of civil unrest.

Things like that in this country, and perhaps in the states as well? would not occur with out the word terrorist being mentioned. The 'terrorist act' or what ever it is over here, would be endlessly cited.