Thread: If a tree falls in the forest..you're gonna hate this one.

Back in my college days I took a number of philosophy courses. One of the questions we studied had to do with the age old question of whether, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it makes a noise? I ended up convinced it does not.
As my professor would say: "Care to discuss?"

I'm going to say that it does make a noise. I'm not familiral with the philosophical approach to the question, but I have always enjoyed philosophy and I would love to hear your reasoning when you are ready to share it.

Though I don't know anything about your reasoning yet, I would love if you could, in talking about why the tree does not make a sound, address the question - "If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does a tree fall in the forest?" I'm not sure how the answer to one question could be no and the other yes.

I've done some reading, and answered my question in that second section. It seems to me to be a misleading question, with regards to the deeper questions it seeks to probe. Maybe only misleading when taken out of context. Anyhow, philosophically, I am a skeptic - I differentiate between "knowledge" and "functional knowledge" and do not think there is any true "knowledge." "Functional knowledge" would encompass those things that those who believe there is knowledge would call knowledge, and I stick in "functional" because, whether or not this is true knowledge, it allows us to function in our day to day lives.

Perhaps this is too literal, but "hearing" is an auditory response to sound waves. I would say the falling of the tree creates sound waves irregardless of anyone or anything such as an animal, insect or even a tape recorder being around to "hear" them. "Hearing" is a perception of frequencies. If no one or nothing is around to perceive the sound waves, the sound waves still exist.

If a rocket still visible but leaving the earth's atmosphere explodes, it's a silent display to those watching it since it's beyond their auditory perception. Was it heard? No. Did it create sound waves? Yes.

I'm still stuck on the sound of one hand clapping, myself.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Perhaps this is too literal, but "hearing" is an auditory response to sound waves. I would say the falling of the tree creates sound waves irregardless of anyone or anything such as an animal, insect or even a tape recorder being around to "hear" them. "Hearing" is a perception of frequencies. If no one or nothing is around to perceive the sound waves, the sound waves still exist.

If a rocket still visible but leaving the earth's atmosphere explodes, it's a silent display to those watching it since it's beyond their auditory perception. Was it heard? No. Did it create sound waves? Yes.

I'm still stuck on the sound of one hand clapping, myself.

Chris L

If it had already left the atmosphere,then no, it did not make any sound when it exploded. Sound cannot travel in a vacuum.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I'm still stuck on the sound of one hand clapping, myself.

Chris L

I first saw the one hand clapping koan posted in the window of a storefront on Haight Street in SF in the '60s. That and "Buy Free Things". I thought about those until my head hurt.

I've heard the tree falling thing but I was older then and knew enough not to let it bother me. I ride off road singletrack bike trails through woods. I've done a lap and on the second lap a tree had fallen that wasn't down on lap one. If it had fallen on anyone it would've flattened them. When your number is up ......

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I first saw the one hand clapping koan posted in the window of a storefront on Haight Street in SF in the '60s. That and "Buy Free Things". I thought about those until my head hurt.

I've heard the tree falling thing but I was older then and knew enough not to let it bother me. I ride off road singletrack bike trails through woods. I've done a lap and on the second lap a tree had fallen that wasn't down on lap one. If it had fallen on anyone it would've flattened them. When your number is up ......

So, did you hear anything?????

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Perhaps this is too literal, but "hearing" is an auditory response to sound waves. I would say the falling of the tree creates sound waves irregardless of anyone or anything such as an animal, insect or even a tape recorder being around to "hear" them. "Hearing" is a perception of frequencies. If no one or nothing is around to perceive the sound waves, the sound waves still exist.

If a rocket still visible but leaving the earth's atmosphere explodes, it's a silent display to those watching it since it's beyond their auditory perception. Was it heard? No. Did it create sound waves? Yes.

I'm still stuck on the sound of one hand clapping, myself.

Chris L

+1, that's my reasoning, as well.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

So, did you hear anything?????

Not a sound.

If you guys check the Wiki article, you'll see there is a differentiation between the idea of whether or not the sound part relates to "a sound a person can hear" or a "disturbance of air." The wiki seemed to suggest the question was posed without considering this technecality, and would suggest the second interpretation is what was intended. My understanding is that the core question is, when x is not observed by anyone/anything, does x still exist.

You could ask "If there is a tree that is not observed, does the tree exist."

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

If you guys check the Wiki article, you'll see there is a differentiation between the idea of whether or not the sound part relates to "a sound a person can hear" or a "disturbance of air." The wiki seemed to suggest the question was posed without considering this technecality, and would suggest the second interpretation is what was intended. My understanding is that the core question is, when x is not observed by anyone/anything, does x still exist.

You could ask "If there is a tree that is not observed, does the tree exist."

Sort of a Schrodinger's cat type thing going on.