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Yes, because that has nothing to do with social pressure, the state of mind of said person, political, economic situations and the way they were raised?Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
Grouping and blaming religion for this is easy. Thing is there are plenty of religious groups and people that DON'T do this kind of thing. And plenty of people who do such things out of non-religious motivations.
Religion does not have the sole right to crazy people, nor does non-religion to sane people.
No, not all the religious are nutters, Alex, but there is no atheist movement to literally destroy infidels.
heh, yeah it's called Christmas, but virtually everything about it is pagan regardless of the fact that that "Bible" says not to adopt the pagan ways. It's so pagan that Christianity slapped it's name on it and most Christian scholars accept that it almost certainly was NOT the day that the potentially fictional guy was born on. It's like I stole your bicycle and scratched my name on it and when you call the cops to complain they say, "What are you talking about it says 'xman' right there"! (working out personal grievance)
Cultures the world over have been celebrating this time of year for countless generations, millennia really, and Christians have no moral high ground on it simply because they burned people alive for centuries who didn't call it Christmas. Hell, I'd be calling it Christmas too and doing all my old pagan rituals anyhow just like everybody does now.
Celebrate peace and love. Share these things with friends, family and strangers too. Don't try and tell us you've got the copyright because that's laughable.
Merry Christmas everyone. May you all share joy with those you love this season.
X
There are a few atheist movements to literally destroy Christianity though X.Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
Merry Christmas to all.
Whatever the reason, be it Christmas, sun taking a victory over night, or something else, it is a time for celebration. Peace on earth and good will between people.
Have fun, stressless and precious time with your families and friends.
Merry Christmas for all
I'm not the authority on why Dec 25 but here's a some information on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
For the church's first three centuries, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar at all.
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.
Not all of Origen's contemporaries agreed that Christ's birthday shouldn't be celebrated, and some began to speculate on the date (actual records were apparently long lost). Clement of Alexandria (c.150-c.215) favored May 20 but noted that others had argued for April 18, April 19, and May 28. Hippolytus (c.170-c.236) championed January 2. November 17, November 20, and March 25 all had backers as well. A Latin treatise written around 243 pegged March 21, because that was believed to be the date on which God created the sun. Polycarp (c.69-c.155) had followed the same line of reasoning to conclude that Christ's birth and baptism most likely occurred on Wednesday, because the sun was created on the fourth day.
The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.
Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.
The pagan origins of the Christmas date, as well as pagan origins for many Christmas customs (gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts), have always fueled arguments against the holiday. "It's just paganism wrapped with a Christian bow," naysayers argue. But while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture—including holidays—positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it."
I have never found any way to track Jesus' birthday in any study I think it's suppose to be that way. There's a patteren to Jesus' life ,death, & resurrection I don't think a lot of people see. Please allow me to show you a few verses from the book of Philippians: Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, Phil 2:5-9
The theme is not Exaltation. It is humility before exaltation it's humbleness before honor. Arrogance by those who "claim" to know Christ is a hindrance to those who are attempting to share the good news that while we were sinners Christ died for us. Those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior MUST do so humbly. It is only when we understand that we are dead in our trespass and sin (Spiritually dead, separated from God for eternity ) and there is nothing within us to redeem us that we cry out to Christ for salvation. We come on our knees and He lifts us up.
So, when you say,"celebrate peace and love. Share these things with friends, family and strangers too." That should be every Christian's theme at Christmas, Reaching out a hand to help those in need, comforting the sad and depressed, sharing peace and love with all. You know that should be what we do everyday of the year including Christmas. Maybe that's why it says just before these verses :Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Phil 2:3-5
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Merry Christmas & Happy New Year
Thank you SRP and all the members here I must say this has to be best fourm on the planet. If it isn't don't tell me, I don't think I would want to know I like you guys. :rock: <!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment-->
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e.../Opression.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by JMS
I agree with X on this. I'm a Christian, but there's virtually no chance that Jesus was born on Dec. 25, and even at that, the Christmas holiday is essentially Pagan in every aspect. Having said that, I celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday only, and I hate that there is such a religious attachment to it by many.
Okay X, I am curious as to what the pic was.Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
:):):)Merry Christmas back at you Sailor:):):)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor
Here is a cool song by Dar Williams:
TITLE: The Christians and the Pagans
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Amber called her uncle, said "We're up here for the holiday
Jane and I were having Solstice, now we need a place to stay"
And her Christ-loving uncle watched his wife hang Mary on a tree
He watched his son hang candy canes all made with red dye number three
He told his niece, "It's Christmas eve, I know our life is not your style"
She said, "Christmas is like Solstice, and we miss you and it's been awhile"
So the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table
Finding faith and common ground the best that they were able
And just before the meal was served, hands were held and prayers were said
Sending hope for peace on earth to all their gods and goddesses
The food was great, the tree plugged in, the meal had gone without a hitch
Till Timmy turned to Amber and said, "Is it true that you're a witch?"
His mom jumped up and said, "The pies are burning," and she hit the kitchen
And it was Jane who spoke, she said, "It's true, your cousin's not a Christian"
"But we love trees, we love the snow, the friends we have, the world we share
And you find magic from your God, and we find magic everywhere"
So the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table
Finding faith and common ground the best that they were able
And where does magic come from, I think magic's in the learning
Cause now when Christians sit with Pagans only pumpkin pies are burning
When Amber tried to do the dishes, her aunt said, "Really, no, don't bother"
Amber's uncle saw how Amber looked like Tim and like her father
He thought about his brother, how they hadn't spoken in a year
He thought he'd call him up and say, "It's Christmas and your daughter's here"
He thought of fathers, sons and brothers, saw his own son tug his sleeve saying
"Can I be a Pagan?" Dad said, "We'll discuss it when they leave"
So the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table
Finding faith and common ground the best that they were able
Lighting trees in darkness, learning new ways from the old, and
Making sense of history and drawing warmth out of the cold