Thread: Global trends and the decline of the U.S. and Europe

Originally Posted by honedright

If so, us buying from them means that they must also buy from us.

or buy from somebody else who is happy to have the dollars in order to buy from US. Or they can just stack mountains of unspent US dollars.
Or may be they would like to buy stuff that you wouldn't like to see sold to them, banks, weapons, companies and politicians come to mind.

Thus the old saying: You get what you pay for...

The fact is the U.S is already in the process of becoming a second rate nation. Look at our social problems, look at our educational system, look at our economy and what and how and where we produce things.

We will become like Mexico? You bet. There will be a small number of super rich who own everything and a small super middle class of people like professionals and mid sized business owners and the far majority will be in the lower classes.

Its easy to tell people to retrain for new jobs however not everyone has the ability to become an engineer or scientist or mathematician. For the majority of people who are High School Grads the jobs that pay good will not exist in sufficient numbers and the huge H.S Drop out rates? Those people will be relegated to poverty all their lives.

As has been said we have a service economy propped up by commercial credit and when people don't have the cash to buy and can't get the credit anymore the economy folds like a deck of cards.

What happens when our friends in the orient appear on the steps of the Treasury and demand cash for all the paper they hold on us?

The fact is the golden age for this country was in the 1950s and 60s. Just comparing our lives today with those times will leave little doubt the standard of living as gone down drastically.

Can our problems be solved. The longer we let it go the more difficult it becomes and with the increasing polarization of this country the ability to solve our problems decreases.

I would not be surprised if 30 or more years from now this country becomes two or even three along regional lines. One thing for sure if you died tomorrow and returned in 50 years you wouldn't recognize this country.

It's easy to point at walmart and start booing, but the problem lies with the American population itself.

I am too young to know when it changed, but at a certain point between WW2 and now, College quarterbacks became heroes and the science department became known as a collection of nerds, freaks and losers. Budgets for college football teams are higher than for science departments.

So what did you expect to happen?

Europe has some of these problems as well, but to a lesser degree. I think this is at least partially because Europe still consists of independent countries for which international trade (and not just export) has been a thing of all times.

Regarding the demographic factor as in China's "one child policy" Germany has similar problems. They led to slowly forgetting the generation contract. Retirement money will be so little, that we have to save up ourselves to make ends meet. Since we're getting a lot older now, than only twenty years ago, that also means we will have to work longer. (Until 67 right now, but they want to extend that)

Originally Posted by Bruno

I am too young to know when it changed, but at a certain point between WW2 and now, College quarterbacks became heroes and the science department became known as a collection of nerds, freaks and losers. Budgets for college football teams are higher than for science departments.

Keep in mind that in Europe the image thing is just as prevalent (computernerd vs. football (US: soccer) player). And of course, how many cities in Europe have financially supported their professional football teams beyond any reasonable boundaries. Reasonable to me at least. This has happened/is happening in Holland quite a bit, don't know about Belgium. Quite a few clubs, even prominent names, have budget deficit and little to no outlook on improvement, but everybody's tax euros will happily be spent to keep a few local fans happy.

From my best knowledge, many colleges and universities in the US are privately sponsored by people giving money to specific parts, like football teams and science labs. The image thing plays some role in determining the recipients, also in forming preferences for fund destinations. And from what I can see, college sports do generate income for universities. Many a professional European football/soccer club will be jealous of the amount of visitors and TV revenue.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The fact is the golden age for this country was in the 1950s and 60s. Just comparing our lives today with those times will leave little doubt the standard of living as gone down drastically.

That standard of living was merely a facade during an age when (to most Americans) the rest of the world didn't exist.

While I'm grateful for the advantages I've had during my lifetime (and proud to be an American) I fail to see the "problems" that are discussed here according to this day/age. The only difference is that, now that we have the methods to effectively communicate with other areas of the world, compare their prices, and purchase products from them, Americans have found ways to get more for their "buck".

But you can't just keep getting more for your buck, thats just unsustainable, the losses have to accumulate somewhere.

We have to understand that we have progressed to a global market. A repercussion of purchasing on a global market is that we are now employed on a global market.

If companies are outsourcing to other places because it's cheaper there, the only way to compete is to work for comparative labor wages here. As such, the quality of life (as deemed by individual income) HAS to level out across the board. It HAS to.

This is supply and demand as applied to labor. Eventually we're going to have to accept the fact that, if we're buying other countries stuff, we can't live better than them. This isn't a problem, it's just how it works.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Regarding the demographic factor as in China's "one child policy" Germany has similar problems. They led to slowly forgetting the generation contract. Retirement money will be so little, that we have to save up ourselves to make ends meet. Since we're getting a lot older now, than only twenty years ago, that also means we will have to work longer. (Until 67 right now, but they want to extend that)

If you're interested in the demographic effects, watch this:

Demographic Winter - the decline of the human family

I saw it a while back and it was interesting to say the least.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

If you're interested in the demographic effects, watch this:

Demographic Winter - the decline of the human family

I saw it a while back and it was interesting to say the least.

That is pretty interesting link you gave. What the movie tries to point is at least worth considering.
Have to wait until they get a Finnish copy of it. Might take a while

Originally Posted by 0livia

Regarding the demographic factor as in China's "one child policy" Germany has similar problems. They led to slowly forgetting the generation contract. Retirement money will be so little, that we have to save up ourselves to make ends meet. Since we're getting a lot older now, than only twenty years ago, that also means we will have to work longer. (Until 67 right now, but they want to extend that)

Also, the low population growth rate in Germany will create a whole lot of interesting problems pension-wise.