Thread: Respect vs. Blasphemy

Here we go...

Originally Posted by mhailey

I have no respect for religions other than Christianity. I respect the person that practicies other religions, but not the religions themselves.

A religion, in the context of this thread, is such that a belief in the religion is mutually exclusive of all other religions. If you believe in Christ, you automatically disbelieve any other religion, and should not respect it. If you believe in Muhamad, then you automatically disbelive, and disrespect, all other religions than Islam.

The practictioners of the religions should respect all people. However, if you respect other religions, you are not a true believer of your own religion.

Matt

Opinions like the above lie at the root of intolerance, the last sentence lies at the root of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism isn't limited to islam, lots of Christians have fundamentalist opinions as well. Lots of religious wars and the crusades were inspired by it.

Originally Posted by ENUF2
What, You hold your position without belief in it? I don't think so.

Think again.

Ok, so you do not believe in the position where you stand. So what do you believe in? Nothing?


Originally Posted by ENUF2
I can honestly say rarely do I see a professing Atheist under the bridge downtown helping to feed the homeless. I have never spent time with one on the mission field working with orphans over seas or here at home.
Let me add: Usually when someone other than a "Christian" is there it is usually fulfilling some sort of restortive justice sentence from the court system.

Well when we're 80% of the population we'll be able to say the same thing about you lot.Amazon.com: The Atheist's Guide to Christmas (9780007322619): Ariane Sherine: Books

A book on the Atheist's view of what to do with a Hoilday (this word means Holy day by the way) we do not believe in?
I'll say this about us now- Our own numbers show that 20% of those who attend Church regulary do 80% of the work. That includes but not limited to Ministry and Missions. A pastor inside the Southern Baptist Convention about 2 years ago told his congregation it was his belief that about 80% of "professing" Christians are not saved and going to hell. Not judging, just looking at the evidence.

Jesus said "How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it." Right after this is one of those "bearing fruit passages". “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So you’ll recognize them by their fruit. Matthew 7:15-20.


For us who truly follow Christ -
This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but shuts off his compassion from him—how can God’s love reside in him?

Little children, we must not love in word or speech, but in deed and truth; that is how we will know we are of the truth, and will convince our hearts in His presence, because if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. 1John 3:16-20.

I curious. If Atheists made up 80% of the population where would you be? Helping others or sitting on the sidelines saying "they are someone elses problem".
We help others not inspite of God but because of His influence in our lives. We believe every life has value even those who the rest of society would sweep away.
We may not agree with their thoughts or values but we will still reach out to others not because we will make them "Christian" (because we can not // no one came come unless they are drawn by the Father )
but because we care for others as God cares for us. I say this not because it's a creed somewhere but because this is how I and others truly live.

Originally Posted by ENUF2

I curious. If Atheists made up 80% of the population where would you be? Helping others or sitting on the sidelines saying "they are someone elses problem".
We help others not inspite of God but because of His influence in our lives. We believe every life has value even those who the rest of society would sweep away.
We may not agree with their thoughts or values but we will still reach out to others not because we will make them "Christian" (because we can not // no one came come unless they are drawn by the Father )
but because we care for others as God cares for us. I say this not because it's a creed somewhere but because this is how I and others truly live.


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I think you misunderstood X-man here. He meant to say that Christians make up 80% and that if Atheists would make up 80% there'd be a lot more helping atheists too. (I think that's what he meant anyway)

ENUF2:
"Ok, so you do not believe in the position where you stand. So what do you believe in? Nothing?"

I don't think you get it.

Atheism, as it is usually meant, is not a position at all. Really. There is no position.

For most atheists, it is nothing more than a suspension of belief due to not having any good reason to believe.

We atheists? We are standing outside the debate entirely. You have not proven to us that it is a debate worth having, since you have not proven that what we are debating is real.

There is no position. Atheism is simply the default state of mind.

As to whether or not atheists are human enough to help other humans...

Ya know, I'm an atheist, and since I reached the final years of high school, I have never passed by a homeless person who was talking to me without stopping. If I have food, I give it to them. If I have money, I give that too. And if all I've got is my pretty smile, then I give that. Always.

The only exception was once, a short while after I had left everything to pursue nomadism. I was tired and hungry and broke. I had nothing to give. It was near Christmas. I was in London at the time, passing under the pedestrian tunnels at Elephant and Castle. I walked right by a homeless man who was trying to talk to me. He probably would have appreciated my smile, even if I didn't have a penny to my name.

But I kept walking. Partially because I felt bad that I had nothing. And he called after me, in a heart-wrenching voice I still remember perfectly to this day, "Talk to me! It's ****ing Christmas!"

And I felt horrible for that. It is one of the few moments of my life that even years later, I look back on and the sadness is still very real to me.

In the crowds I ran with back then, there were a lot of givers. Real givers. They came from all kinds of backgrounds, but most of them weren't religious. Some were spiritual - but they didn't belong to any group. Many were much more hard-nosed atheists than I am.

But we all gave and gave and gave until we had nothing. Because it was the right goddamn thing to do. And we knew that when we were in need, the others would help us. We were poor, destitutely so, because we gave every single thing we had.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with that sort of humanity. That is something we all have, inherently. Though most of choose to ignore it.

And if you want to try and cheapen the goodness of the heart by telling me that it's only available to people who think your way, then I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Just wrong. And that's all there is to say about it.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

ENUF2:
...snip

We atheists? We are standing outside the debate entirely. You have not proven to us that it is a debate worth having, since you have not proven that what we are debating is real.

snip...

Then why is it that I can't come into The Conversation forum without at least 3 running threads of the same guys and gals debating this stuff ad nauseum?

Well, my understanding as per the OP is that this wasn't a debate about the rightness or wrongness of belief, but rather, ones perspective of religion overall.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Well, my understanding as per the OP is that this wasn't a debate about the rightness or wrongness of belief, but rather, ones perspective of religion overall.

Reading this thread and others like it, it reads like a debate of Theism vs Atheism... Your posts included, but I think you knew that.

God exists beyond religion, God is like the mountaintop and religion are the different tour guide companies operating on the mountaintop.

You do not need tour guides(religion) to explore and make progress up the mountain, although free will does mean thats your choice.

Tour guide companies(religions) deserve respect based on results.
Do they give out correct information?
Do they endanger the lives of the hikers who choose to hike with them?
Do they value their servicer correctly or do they overcharge and give bad quality inforamtion/service?
Are they properly trained/certified?
Are their customers visibly satisfied with the service, are they happy?(seeing as this particular mountian means life that means are they always happy in their life and to what degree)

And most importantly do they actually get people all the way to the top of the mountain or is it all just based on blind faith and promises that some day they will get there and see the top.

Religion should get respect realtive to the positive results it provides. Everything deserves respect to some degree, the question is how much respect?

Best Regards,
Greg

Not trying to put words in MistressNomad's mouth and then quote her .... but.... When I was an atheist there was no debate because there was absolutely no issue. So when someone says that their unbelief doesn't equal a 'position' it is because they feel indifferent to the debate. At least that is my take based on my previous experience.

When I was a kid, raised by atheists, I once had a guy trying to convince me of the truth of the bible. He told me of the gospel, the good news, and I told him that I didn't believe it. He then told me that I didn't understand ... that the old testament prophecies proved the new testament and I replied that he did not understand .... that I didn't believe any of it .... so the prophecies proved absolutely nothing to me.

Years later I came to believe and then to disbelieve and now to be in a limbo of basically agnosticism in what I think is the true sense of the word. So for me there is a debate internally and externally. That wasn't true of me when I was younger, then it was the fore mentioned indifference, hence no position.