Thread: Just Bitching

Originally Posted by rtaylor61

What I have a problem with is their blatant breaking of the law, and even worse, the effect they are having on others. If your gonna pee in the pool, that's one thing. Just don't do it from the high dive!

Since when was it made illegal not to come to work? Is this yet another clause in the so called 'Patriot Act' that I was unaware of? Last time I checked it was still legal to strike, just as it is still legal for the companies in question to hire replacement workers if they feel they can get away with it. (Whether you would want to entrust your life to someone with absolutely no experience running a transit vehicle is another question).

It is up to the company to look out for themselves, it is up to the union to look out for the workers. Without unions only the extremely wealthy would have healthcare, retirement, and a safe job. Most people want to be able to own their own home, send their kids to good schools, live in a safe neighborhood, and be able to afford to have their or their loved ones life saved by good doctors if and when they come down with a life threatening illness. I don't know what homes are selling for in NY, but guess what, last time I checked the average home price in my neighborhood (which is over 30 miles from my work) it was 750,000.00. Homes that are over 60 miles away are going for over 1/2 a mil. Last time I had a tooth repaired I had a +500.00 copayment. I don't know how young people earning 40,000.00 a year ( or even double that) will be able to afford new homes or healthcare. I don't have exact figures but it seems to me the prices of homes and gas and electricity have gone up a lot more than 3% per year the last few years.

I am not sure you would want to live in a country where it was illegal to strike, and where the vast majority of the population made the same salary and had the same benefits as working for Wal-Mart or Home Depot. Perhaps that is the future, but if it is, it is not the one I would wish for my children.

Originally Posted by Ravenflight

Since when was it made illegal not to come to work? Is this yet another clause in the so called 'Patriot Act' that I was unaware of? Last time I checked it was still legal to strike, just as it is still legal for the companies in question to hire replacement workers if they feel they can get away with it. (Whether you would want to entrust your life to someone with absolutely no experience running a transit vehicle is another question).

Ravenflight,

New York had a big problem during the Lindsay administration in 1966 (actually, his first day in office, apparently) with a transit strike that crippled the city and went on for a long time. LBJ had to step in to mediate and stop it.

After that, the NY Legislature passed the "Taylor Law" that makes it illegal for public employees (police, fire, transit, sanitation, among others) to go on strike. If they do, they could be fined and the leaders of the strike jailed.

I'm not sure it's fair either, but that's why there's all this talk about the strike being "illegal".

-Keith

I have heard of unions being unable to strike. My wife and sister both work in different levels of public jobs (wife is a county worker and sister is a federal worker). Both are union employees and both are not allowed to strike. What is the point of being in a union then? If your collective bargaining unit cannot strike, what is the leveraging power, upset employees?

Originally Posted by Ravenflight

I am not sure you would want to live in a country where it was illegal to strike, and where the vast majority of the population made the same salary and had the same benefits as working for Wal-Mart or Home Depot. Perhaps that is the future, but if it is, it is not the one I would wish for my children.

Have you ever been to New York? The transit workers salary start at 47k not a bad start for no skills. The reason the Taylor law was enacted was to benefit the mass of New Yorkers. Thank God the strike ended this was hurting many people, not just commuters, Small shop keepers were getting hammered. Driving in NYC is not a way to get around. I am just glad it is over.

Originally Posted by cudahogs

If your collective bargaining unit cannot strike, what is the leveraging power, upset employees?

Other actions are possible.
'Work to Rule' means that workers cover the barest minimum requirements. The high school teachers did it in my graduating year. They taught all their classes, but gave no marks or extra curricular activities. Since a deal was not met by the time the year ended our final marks were based on the marks we had before the action started. Good thing too, because we had started reading The Stone Angel in English class which I thought was a dull book and would have brought my grades down.
Rotating walk outs have been taken by doctors and nurses too. Some work while others man the picket lines.

Originally Posted by RichZ

Have you ever been to New York? The transit workers salary start at 47k not a bad start for no skills. The reason the Taylor law was enacted was to benefit the mass of New Yorkers. Thank God the strike ended this was hurting many people, not just commuters, Small shop keepers were getting hammered. Driving in NYC is not a way to get around. I am just glad it is over.

Yes, but then again I hear paying 50.00+ for a steak dinner or 5.00 for a slice of pizza in NYC is not considered highway robbery! You couldn't pay me 47,000.00 a year to live in NYC. I don't know which would be worse- starving or freezing. And what's this I hear about people killing each other just to secure an rent controlled apartment???

No, I think I'll stay in sunny Southern California, where all I have to worry about is earthquakes and wildfires, where I can go to work outside in December with just a t-shirt and shorts on, there's always a place to park, and where I can still get a NY Steak dinner for under 20.00 (Albeit not in NY).

Rotating walk outs have been taken by doctors and nurses too. Some work while others man the picket lines.

Now that you say that, I have heard of the "Blue Flu" that our local Police Department has come down with during past contract years.
-Fred

Originally Posted by Ravenflight

Yes, but then again I hear paying 50.00+ for a steak dinner or 5.00 for a slice of pizza in NYC is not considered highway robbery! You couldn't pay me 47,000.00 a year to live in NYC. I don't know which would be worse- starving or freezing. And what's this I hear about people killing each other just to secure an rent controlled apartment???

No, I think I'll stay in sunny Southern California, where all I have to worry about is earthquakes and wildfires, where I can go to work outside in December with just a t-shirt and shorts on, there's always a place to park, and where I can still get a NY Steak dinner for under 20.00 (Albeit not in NY).

I will agree that NYC is not cheap but a slice is still only $2. As for a steak dinner we have 2 kids and don't get out too much. NYC is a place of extremes things can be very expensive and almost very expensive
But as for comparing it to earth quakes, mud slides and forest firesI think I will still take NYC.

Originally Posted by RichZ

But as for comparing it to earth quakes, mud slides and forest fires I think I will still take NYC.

Well you know some of those risks can be mitigated with just a modicum of common sense. A quality I find sadly lacking in a large percentage of my fellow Californians. For instance:

1.) If you are considering buying a house that is built into the side of a cliff and supported with 30ft high toothpicks, then you should not act at all surprised when said structure proceeds to slide down that cliff the next time it rains or we get the slightest trembler.

2.) When buying a house in the middle of a forest with a history of forst fires (which is an act of questionable intelligence in and of itself) do not cover your dwelling in a material which has a proven flamibility index just slightly less than that of gasoline. Shake roofing is what the rest of us refer to as 'kindling'. I was greatly disturbed a few years back when the State tried to outlaw this kindl, er, 'roofing material' and saw such a large number of residents up in arms over it. I was even more amazed to see the goverment proceed to backpedal and give out exemptions for re-roofing existing dwellings, historic structures, etc.

3.) When purchasing a home with easy backyard "steps out onto the beach" access and 'fall asleep to the relaxing sound of surf', do not be surprised if your floors get wet. Also on the subject, houseboats are neither 'house', nor a seaworthy 'boat', and is not something you wish to be residing in during the next storm.

4.) If the area you are looking at resembles a 'plain' which at some point has been 'flooded', you may be standing in a 'floodplain'. More thinking may be required before buying.

5.) Not that the California State goverment has any more sense. Case in point- Subways! Large Earthquake prone area. Now proceed to bury hollow tubes made out of brittle 8" thick concrete. Section of earth in middle proceeds to move one direction while ajacent earth moves another- what happens to tube inbetween? Well fortunately we haven't discovered the answer to this yet, but I suspect the answer will be "A lawsuit!"