Thread: Toronto Gun Violence Controversy

I'm not sure how much press this topic has been receiving internationally, so I'll try to bring everyone up to speed on what's been happening.

In 2005, there were 52 gun deaths in Toronto, and in just about every case, both the victim(s) and the shooter(s) were either "known to police" or had some sort of gang affiliation. Nearly all of the people killed were young black men -- their shooters share the same profile.

As the year drew to a close, the attacks became more brazen and frequent. After one 18-year-old was shot dead while walking with a friend (he survived this particular incident), he was later killed while attending the same buddy's funeral, shot in throat on the church's front steps as the ceremony concluded.

Black community groups in the city responded to this homegrown violence, shockingly, by pointing the finger elsewhere, blaming the local police for both over-policing and under-policing, as well as all levels of government. Concerned representatives from these groups were even granted a meeting with the Prime Minister himself, who agreed to take action on the matter.

Then came December 26, 2005. Boxing day. Shoppers who crowded the downtown area found themselves in the middle of a crossfire as 15 black gang members had an impromptu shootout with one another. When the smoke cleared, not a single one of thugs had been hit -- just a half dozen or so innocent bystanders; one of whom, a young 15-year old (white) girl, Jane Creba (a pretty, blonde-haired star athlete and honour role student) died on the concrete, separated from her mother searched in vain to find her.

Naturally, the country was appalled at how cold and spineless these shooters had been, but more obviously, that someone so innocent, someone with so much promise, had to die on the cold, filthy street when all she ever wanted to do that day was go to a few post-Christmas sales with her mother.

In any event, with both the new year and a Federal election upon us, party leaders have all vowed to take serious action against these "gangstas." But even though the black community is finally getting the response they asked for, here is what The Toronto Star quoted them as saying:

"We've had over 40 black youth die as a result of gun violence, and we have not seen our government react in such an immediate and strong way

And so we wonder, if it was a black youth that was murdered on Dec. 26, whether or not they would have moved as quickly. We don't feel that they are taking our issue as seriously as it ought to be taken. To us, it is a continuation of the different way in which we are treated as black people in this country."

So what say you?

Wow thats ridiculous. Does no one take accountability for their own actions anymore?
John P.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

In 2005, there were 52 gun deaths in Toronto, and in just about every case, both the victim(s) and the shooter(s) were either "known to police" or had some sort of gang affiliation. Nearly all of the people killed were young black men -- their shooters share the same profile.

There's a rise in Vancouver now too, but that's Indo-Canadian gangs. I guess that's brown enough for most bigots though.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

... 15 black gang members had an impromptu shootout with one another.

That's what you're "Free" press gives you. A pill that's easy to swallow. ACTUALLY, it was ONE (1) youth with a beef at the floor man, threatened to mess him up, was told to bring it, ran to get a piece and, in his murderous rage, got capped by the camera!

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

In any event, with both the new year and a Federal election upon us, party leaders have all vowed to ...

Don't even get me started.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

"... And so we wonder, if it was a black youth that was murdered on Dec. 26, whether or not they would have moved as quickly. ..."

1. They're right. Jane Creba's tragic death has more meaning because of her position in society.
2. They're not helping anything. The shooter was likely dark do to class issues, not race issues, and it's an easily forgotten distinction there. Nobody wants a year of racially motivated violence in Toronto.
3. Boxing Day might have had something to do with it, but they 'neglect' to point that out.

I dont know, I can only speak from my experiences in the UK which (I think) has similar gun control to Canada. The inner city area of the City I live closest to (Birmingham, UK) has a large black contingency. On the early hours of 2nd Jan 2003, two black girls were caught in a crossfire between two rival gangs and both died of their injuries.

Now these girls were not honour roll (or our equivalent) and came from a poor background but the front page of every newspaper was devoted to their killings and one of the biggest police manhunts ever in Birmingham saw the convictions of five men (one a brother of one of the dead girls) a year later. I know this is not canada and so not directly comparable but I was glad to see the positive response irrelevant of class and colour.

What I was not so pleased about was the vilification of guns (again) and the subequent arguments over the gun laws. Now I have a marksman certificate knocking around somewhere but I do agree with the strict gun laws in the UK. However, I thought that most of the press/people concentrated on the legislation and guns themselves rather than how they get into the hands of people who will use them and how we can stop that which of course is the proper issue. The blame in the monochrome media was assigned as being to do with rap music gun culture; failing to realise that if it wasn't music that it would be something else and the cause is more deep rooted than the superficial noise emitted by peoples stereos or the difficulty involved in getting a certificate to say you can own a gun.

Sounds like the only people who have guns are the criminals. Maybe it's time to arm the innocent people also, so they can protect theirselves.

And so we wonder, if it was a black youth that was murdered on Dec. 26, whether or not they would have moved as quickly. We don't feel that they are taking our issue as seriously as it ought to be taken. To us, it is a continuation of the different way in which we are treated as black people in this country."[/i]

So what say you?

I don't think it was the colo(u)r of the victims skin that propmted public outrage, but the fact that the victim was an innocent bystander. When thugs and gang members are killing each other, most people (including myself) don't give two f%#ks.

Well, actually, I do care because most thugs have such poor marksmanship that they're bound to hit just about everything BUT their target. It seems( to ME, at least) that most of the "drive-by" shootings in my old neighborhood were more aimed (no pun intended) at intimidating the target rather than in killing him. Since thet're not actually aiming AT their target, they are completely unaware where their gun is pointing.

EDIT: And I agree with Rob, the law abiding citizens should be allowed to arm themselves. But in Canada, I guess they feel safer with only criminals being armed.

Originally Posted by Rob

Sounds like the only people who have guns are the criminals. Maybe it's time to arm the innocent people also, so they can protect theirselves.

That is the thinking that got the world into trouble. Instead arming everybody, how about taking the guns out of the hands of everyone... But it is not the goverment's interest to do that, so people getting killed everyday...

I just want to add that I am sure the race of the girl along with the nearness to Christmas had a lot to do with it. But so what, sometimes the ends do justify the means. The response is what really matters people have to stop pointing back and forth and monitor their own homes. If my son joined a gang I would kick his butt from one side on NYC to the other. The problems start in the home, clean up that problem and you will find that most (not all) of this violence will end.

Living in NYC I can't agree with arming the people. Have you ever ridden on a NYC subway? There would be more shootouts then in the old west. I know myself there are many times if I had a gun someone would be soil sleeping.
Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by superfly

That is the (USA) thinking that got the world into trouble. Instead arming everybody, how about taking the guns out of the hands of everyone... But it is not the goverment's interest to do that, so people getting killed everyday...

How do you do that? If it wasn't guns, it would be knives, if not knives, it would be clubs, if not clubs, then rocks. It's been that way throughout history. The people that are better armed are going to win. So by outlawing guns, you've made law abiding citizens victims. It's not a perfect solution, no. But no one has come up with a viable solution either. Gun laws have not worked in the past. I could look up and qoute all kinds of statistics, but you can look up those also.

This is in no way meant to start an arguement, but a friendly discussion.

Originally Posted by superfly

That is the (USA) thinking that got the world into trouble. Instead arming everybody, how about taking the guns out of the hands of everyone... But it is not the goverment's interest to do that, so people getting killed everyday...

I just want to say stop blaming the USA for all the problems in the world. How much does your country contribute to nations in need? I am sick and tired of USA bashing. Jealousy does rear an ugly head.