A Controversial but Serious Question

We all know that the average american brute is barely mono-lingual. For us to emerge from our restrictive and ugly shells we must become multi-lingual so that we can ably converse with the multi-tude of other world citizens. Then we can all melt together in this great Pangaea pot.

OK, big group hug now :)

And if I could have understood a word that my health maintenance organization MD of 20+ years ago said about my wrecked knee, maybe I would be limping less now. I'm sure, no - I believe, it was English that was spoken, but it was so heavily accented that it was unintelligible to me. :rant:

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

... I think people who live and work in a country should speak the language native to that country.

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Of course they should. That's just common sense. Should they be required to? That's a different question.

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

So yes, I think people who want to live in America should speak English.

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Just to play devil's advocate, do you speak Maori?

I don't mean to be combative at all, but simply to point out that there is plenty of grey in this issue.

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Originally Posted by gugi

I've ran into US forum members with english supposedly their mother language fail over and over at understanding very simple words. Like 'offend', 'insult', 'unwelcome', and even 'do not'. More importantly there is so much communication failures in this section that I have to question the importance of the actual language being used.

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that statement is elitist to say the least. there are many words and phrases that mean vastly different things to people depending on the area of the country they may be from or nuances to that particular persons upbringing and socioeconomic status(I.E. education)
being born, raised and living in a country with a "mother" language does not mean everyone has the same definition of words and phrases within that country.
this should be more proof that being fluent in the language of the country that a doctor resides in, is of utmost importance.

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

that statement is elitist to say the least.

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Actually it is not at all, unless you are able to demonstrate in what way it is by using Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online as the source for your definitions.

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

there are many words and phrases that mean vastly different things to people depending on the area of the country they may be from or nuances to that particular persons upbringing and socioeconomic status(I.E. education)
being born, raised and living in a country with a "mother" language does not mean everyone has the same definition of words and phrases within that country.
this should be more proof that being fluent in the language of the country that a doctor resides in, is of utmost importance.

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The part in red actually means that fluency is an amorphous term, and has no bearing whatsoever on any importance of it.
Come on, logic is logic, just constructing a paragraph doesn't make it an argument.

^^^ :bow

PS Why does the poll offer only one 'yes' option, but two 'no' options and two 'n/a' options?

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Originally Posted by BingoBango

How and by whom? Why wouldn't the current test-makers and administrators determine the guidelines and create testing by whatever standards are in place? The only thing that would change is adding questions or components specifically for fluency in English, perhaps as an oral exam or interview, and leave the remaining tests untouched.

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Well, why would they do anything beyond what they are currently doing? Because they read your post? In my view you were posting way over your head. You bought a narrative without any supporting evidence to it and then started making claims what needs to be done without even knowing what is currently done.

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Originally Posted by BingoBango

(The tone sorta implies that you expect my answer to be a little loopy... Just sayin'.)

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No, the tone implies that I found your posts up to that point a little 'loopy' (see the previous part of this post). I expected that you will either request that the government begin regulating the requirements for fluency, or have some way to explain how something that according to you the free market forces haven't provided up to now, will somehow be created by these same forces once you realized the need for it.
But instead your solution was 'it should just happen'.

Fortunately, it actually has already happened and this whole thread seems to be nothing more than a straw man.

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Originally Posted by gugi

Actually it is not at all, unless you are able to demonstrate in what way it is by using Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online as the source for your definitions.


The part in red actually means that fluency is an amorphous term, and has no bearing whatsoever on any importance of it.
Come on, logic is logic, just constructing a paragraph doesn't make it an argument.

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you just proved my point. everyone does not adhere to the set definitions of words per Merriam-Webster. that is what i mean by elitist. just because one has a higher education(which is to be commended) does not mean others do. different areas of the country have different definitions of the same word, regardless of what is proper. thus being fluent in the language and understanding these little nuances would help the doctor to understand any and all questions posed by his patients and also help him convey to the patient what he needs them to understand.
when it comes to ones health there should be no questions left unanswered or misunderstood.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

If they want to be my personal doctor yes please. Sadly my only
language is English and I am not that good at that....

If they want to practice medicine and serve parts of the community
that do not speak English that is a different topic.

With engineers and doctors language is always
an issue. For example, I do not have a medical degree and
formal medical language is not a language I know.
When I present myself to my doctor I work hard to
communicate what I know. With engineers and doctors
the dialogue that bridges formal language to what
I say is a task I work hard at.

To point my dogs' vet does not speak dog.
A good doctor or vet can transcend language.

Most apropos the lady next door when I was growing
up had a strong command of English and command
of her doctor. She told the doctor that her gall bladder
was acting up and demanded gall bladder pills, which
she got. A year later she demanded surgery for her
gall bladder -- when they opened her up the cancer
unrelated to her gall bladder was so advanced that
they looked and then closed.....

The point is that I demand a GOOD doctor and I will
work through language issues. The best doctor I have
encountered in the last 25 years was a Chinese speaker
with an accent so thick that I needed a #2 cleaver
to cut it. However he always gave a full assessment
and full evaluation of me AND my complaint. Because
English was his second language he listened with care
and asked pointed and clarifying questions.....

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Tom,

Having worked in the field of Veterinary Medicine for over 30 years, I understand the point you make. You're are correct, Vets don't speak dog, cat, cow, snake, etc. - and they diagnose their patients just fine. I, too, had a Chinese doctor years ago, and he is to this day, the finest Internal Medicine doctor I have ever seen. (I have been a Type 1 diabetic for over 50 years). - and his language skills were not that great.

* This is a great post!

Steve

I did not read the entire thread but I have his question: Don't they have to take the FLEX or whatever license is required by whom ever requires it? Are they (the tests) given in different languages?
Me nephew is chief resident at a large private metro hospital and I know he speaks engrish.

Yes the doctors should be able to speak English. English is the most comprehensive language on the globe. Why you may ask? Because English is a language that encompasses all the languages. When the English language needs a word it will steal it if necessary to be exact and concise.

The idea that one should just go out and find a doctor that has the necessary English skills is all well and fine if one has the financial means to do so. What often happens is that the poor and the uneducated get the short end of the stick and end up with doctors that are just not up to a higher standard that most of us demand from our doctors. I live in a community where the unemployment rate has historically been the 20's and that is before the economic climate that we are in now and I can tell you that we end up with some real losers here.


Later,
Richard