Thread: A Controversial but Serious Question

I was sitting in a meeting of physicians in training (resident physician) where an attending came in and said that surveys being taken for research were causing the institution to get bad reviews. Her reasoning was that the residents did not speak strong enough English to understand the survey. Now most of these residents are training here on visas and will be dispersing into other under served communities in order to keep their visas. Now, there are American citizens who attend foreign medical schools who can't get residency positions despite their parents paying taxes and yet these residents are getting the positions and can't even speak English. Then to top it off, I have a classmate who defends them and says its not their responsibility to know the language (obviously she was not born in the US).

Am I wrong in assuming that you should be able to speak the language in order to practice medicine? Should you expect your doctor to understand complex language skills since medicine uses complex language? This is a serious question that I am ashamed has to be asked. The US has completely lost touch with reality. Healthcare reform without tort reform? Illegal citizens being able to file medical malpractice and given legal standing? People getting residency training without even being able to speak proper English?

English is a must.
I have to communicate with a lot of Chinese students and they frankly are completely oblivious about the meaning of many common terms that we use.
I had the ridiculous experience to talk to a person that has no idea what Acetone is, and can't make the difference between a pump and a valve...
I wonder how they passed their TOEFL/GREs???
I guess learning the dictionary by heart is not good enough, I have heard that's the common practice in China. I am not a native speaker either but most Americans understand me just fine when I talk.

Should a pilot know how to operate a jet before being able to fly it?

Should a nuclear plant employee know how to operate equipment at a plant properly?

Should physicians have a complete grasp of the language spoken in the country they're in in order to communicate effectively and comprehend their patients? Quite simply, it sounds like an absurd question, period.

Maybe "diversity" and "political correctness" really are more important as concepts than human life. At least it seems to be for some.

Chris L

I think this is a very complex question. If you are talking about private universities/hospitals, no one can tell them what do to. When it comes to public hospitals/universities, well, personally I would want the best doctor possible, though I agree that communication with me and other hospital staff is vital.

To focus in on the question in the poll, as long as the person is able to speak well enough to sufficiently communicate or always has a qualified translator available when necessary, my answer is no.

Since English is the lanague used most often in America, it makes sense that its doctors should speak it.

What if a doctor wants to practice in a mostly Spanish-speaking area, though? Should he or she be allowed to skip on learning English in that instance?

to put it very simple: if i can't understand him or her, they ain't working on me...

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Since English is the lanague used most often in America, it makes sense that its doctors should speak it.

What if a doctor wants to practice in a mostly Spanish-speaking area, though? Should he or she be allowed to skip on learning English in that instance?

This area is mostly spanish, but everything being documented is in English so ABSOLUTELY NOT! If they want to speak spanish, then they should go to a Spanish speaking country to practice medicine. I also feel hospitals should not have to bear the expense of translators, patients who are not responsible enough to learn the language should have to pay cash for the translation service. If you can't speak then language then you should have no legal standing to file medical malpractice since the patient history is the most important part of making a diagnosis (85% of the diagnosis in fact). I especially feel this way because everyone coming to this hospital is either on medicaid or government subsidized insurance that taxpayers are being raped on. They won't even take United Health Insurance or other private decent insurance because they can't blatantly over bill them.

As a linguist, a language teacher AND a language learner, let me tell you it ain't that simple.

You say "They can't speak the language" but can I ask you, have you talked to them? Do you know their actual linguistic ability? They can't understand the survey--but as you said, that was their "reasoning". It wasn't, in fact, what they know to be true (unless you misused the word "reasoning." English is hard, innit?)

Language is not a simple thing, and to say that they have to be able to speak English is, in fact, misleading. Deep understanding of medical English is NOT equal to conversational English. In fact, nearly every doctor in the world is going to have a good understanding of Medical English--but not conversational English. Why? Because the textbooks/research documents/journal articles they have to read and write all have to be in English (and, at least in Japan, German...). I have been to several doctors in Japan, and while most of them are unable to speak English conversationally, they were certainly able to write Academic articles in English and tell me "grbrbrbrbra risk of Spinal Meningitis grgrgrgr possible Allergic reaction grgrgrgr twice a day after mealsgrgrgrgrrgrgrOverweight..."

In one real sense, their English is probably better than yours--but not spoken. These doctors may be very well capable of discussing your medical problems and making an accurate diagnosis, while at the same time be unable to ask where to find a paint roller at the hardware store. As for the surveys--what are they about? Medical problems, or facilities, or what?

And can I ask, have you, yourself, had a doctor who didn't speak English? I bet you didn't. Cause the people who hire doctors don't conduct interviews in whatever language these people you're talking about DO speak.

This is a fake problem, I bet. And as for the other stuff--Unrelated nonsense.

Jeez, Trey - starting to reconsider your choice of profession? Illegals have standing in med. mal. suits? I didn't know that and it's RIDICULOUS!

Being able to communicate with a patient is absolutely vital to providing proper treatment. Having a translator is no where near an appropriate solution. You'd have to have a translator for doctor, in each language, in each ward, of each hospital. And don't forget what Trey is discussing - residents! These are, forgive me Trey, doctors in training. Why should a hospital pay someone else so they can allow a resident to practice? It's absurd! These aren't top flight surgeons bringing in the big bucks, they are the guys on the front lines, usually serving in the higher pressure, time-sensitive areas of a hospital, such as emergency rooms. Let's play this out with a translator:

A patient comes in with an non-obvious condition and the doctor is asking questions, which are translated by whom, a non-MD translator? Sure, why not! But the patient is in pain and doesn't understand and the translator says that to the resident, who asks the same question a different way, which is translated, answered, translated. Then another attending resident who speaks a THIRD language comes in to assist, asks for an update and that question is translated to the first translator, then translated again to the other resident, who answers, gets translated twice, and finally 2 residents are on the same page for ONE QUESTION. And after, what, 10 questions we're starting to get some basic info on the patient... To top it off, who is gonna write up the patient's sheet? In what language? Who's gonna translate that?

And forget about surgery - 10 people in a room and nobody knows who's saying what... What a mess! At this rate your best bet is being a plaintiff's attorney in a med. mal. practice. Then again, who would you be suing? Immigrant first-year residents who still haven't paid off med school? I think I'll tattoo my DNR on my chest....

You asked many different questions in this thread, I shall now answer them for you:

Originally Posted by treydampier

Should practicing US physicians be required to speak fluent English?

no

Originally Posted by treydampier

Am I wrong in assuming that you should be able to speak the language in order to practice medicine?

Anytime you start with "Am I wrong in assuming" then the answer is yes.

Originally Posted by treydampier

Should you expect your doctor to understand complex language skills since medicine uses complex language?

No I shouldn't. But maybe you should if it is a concern depending on the situation.

Originally Posted by treydampier

Healthcare reform without tort reform?

Sometimes

Originally Posted by treydampier

Illegal citizens being able to file medical malpractice and given legal standing?

Sometimes

Originally Posted by treydampier

People getting residency training without even being able to speak proper English?

Sometimes

If I want a doctor who speaks fluent English, then I will get one who does. If I want a doctor who cannot speak at all, then I will get one who cannot. My body, my language, my choice