Thread: A Controversial but Serious Question

Originally Posted by BingoBango

...snip lots of over the top scenarios...

This is exactly why I think this ISN'T a problem. Because it's impossible. Seriously, has anyone ever been in a situation like this?

The world is not nearly as insane as you seem to assume...

If they want to be my personal doctor yes please. Sadly my only
language is English and I am not that good at that....

If they want to practice medicine and serve parts of the community
that do not speak English that is a different topic.

With engineers and doctors language is always
an issue. For example, I do not have a medical degree and
formal medical language is not a language I know.
When I present myself to my doctor I work hard to
communicate what I know. With engineers and doctors
the dialogue that bridges formal language to what
I say is a task I work hard at.

To point my dogs' vet does not speak dog.
A good doctor or vet can transcend language.

Most apropos the lady next door when I was growing
up had a strong command of English and command
of her doctor. She told the doctor that her gall bladder
was acting up and demanded gall bladder pills, which
she got. A year later she demanded surgery for her
gall bladder -- when they opened her up the cancer
unrelated to her gall bladder was so advanced that
they looked and then closed.....

The point is that I demand a GOOD doctor and I will
work through language issues. The best doctor I have
encountered in the last 25 years was a Chinese speaker
with an accent so thick that I needed a #2 cleaver
to cut it. However he always gave a full assessment
and full evaluation of me AND my complaint. Because
English was his second language he listened with care
and asked pointed and clarifying questions.....

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Should a pilot know how to operate a jet before being able to fly it?

Should a nuclear plant employee know how to operate equipment at a plant properly?

Should physicians have a complete grasp of the language spoken in the country they're in in order to communicate effectively and comprehend their patients? Quite simply, it sounds like an absurd question, period.

Maybe "diversity" and "political correctness" really are more important as concepts than human life. At least it seems to be for some.

Chris L

Should a pilot have to know English in order to fly a plane?

I think it'd be crazy to have mandatory proficiency in a certain language in order to practice. If you have an issue with the language your doctor speaks, choose a different one. Assuming a basic level of English, I don't think I can envision a scenario in which a doctor's office could not find some level of communication with a patient. I'd also imagine that a doctor who couldn't speak English would hire someone who could adequately translate.

I don't believe that you need to know any specific language in order to understand the human body. I'd rather have the best doctor speaking mediocre English than a mediocre doctor who spoke perfect English.

Trey, I don't know much about the quality of medical schools but I'd like to think that US schools are top notch. If a US student doesn't qualify for medical school here in the States they can go overseas where some places have lower requirements. I have no problems with the better doctors getting residencies regardless of what language they speak. Being a citizen, knowing English, and having tax-paying parents doesn't mean you should automatically get residency.

I've ran into US forum members with english supposedly their mother language fail over and over at understanding very simple words. Like 'offend', 'insult', 'unwelcome', and even 'do not'. More importantly there is so much communication failures in this section that I have to question the importance of the actual language being used.

I have lilved in several countries that I didn't speak the local language, or at the time even very good english, and have managed perfectly fine, including in relating to doctors.

I think you have failed to explain the problem, if there is any. Do you have any observations about your colleagues being impaired in performing good medical job due to their subpar English skills (somebody's displeasure with the rating of an institution is a strange argument to say the least)?
Or are you advocating some sort of protectionist policies for US citizens with regards to practicing medicine in US, and are looking for something to support it?

I haven't read Any of the posts. ... just voted in the poll. Of course they should speak English. IME, most people who have that much education and are from a country other than the USA will speak their native tongue, English and a few more languages but there are exceptions.

Originally Posted by JimR

This is exactly why I think this ISN'T a problem. Because it's impossible. Seriously, has anyone ever been in a situation like this?

The world is not nearly as insane as you seem to assume...

EMERGENCY ROOMS!!!!

What, we all walk into ERs calm, cool and collected and politely ask for the nicest new MD with perfect English, a Southern accent and a side part in his pompadour? People are freaking out! Families are freaking out! When you get wheeled into a trauma center things get crazy. And the last thing someone should worry about is, "Am I making myself perfectly clear to the guy who should know more than me?" The only thing you might possibly be able to understand and answer correctly is, "Can you hear me?" or "What's your name?" "Do you have any allergies?" Even that's tough when someone's got a bullet wound or is ODing on whatever kinda dope he picked up off the street.

But yeah, this is all over the top. A strange pain that some guy without medical training can't explain? Pssh. That never happens! Two MDs need to work together? Another metaphysical impossibility. And doctors who talk during surgery? Why on Earth would that ever happen?!?!

You folks wanna talk about going to a dermatologist for a rash and whether or not it's fine if English isn't his first language, that's one thing. And that one thing is not what Trey asked.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Should a pilot know how to operate a jet before being able to fly it?

This one is interesting...

The answer is YES because that is the
language the tower and air traffic controllers
speak. English is a requirement for pilots!

Originally Posted by JimR

This is exactly why I think this ISN'T a problem. Because it's impossible. Seriously, has anyone ever been in a situation like this?

The world is not nearly as insane as you seem to assume...

JimR
First, their English is not even close to mine, either written or verbal. The problem is the institution is getting bad reviews based on a University of Wisconsin survey because the residents don't understand fully what they are filling out. It is a problem if the residents can't fill out a survey in English and then be expected to understand a patient giving a history.
CommieCat.
Obviously you don't know much about the students I am referring to. Many may not be qualified, but some of them have the scores and grades, but Daddy wasn't a doctor or doesn't have the pull to get them in the back door. The school I attend is better than 1/3 of the US schools in both MCAT scores and entering GPA. We go overseas because politics or some twerp keeps us out. Also, the students outscore most of these international grads from foreign countries adn in my school's situation we have the same number of 99th percentile test takers as Harvard on the USMLE. The reason they get hired is because the department heads themselves are foreign, NOT because the quality is better. Plus these US students who leave, have bachelor's degrees where most foreigners do not. That is why a US doc can practice the world over, yet a foreign trained doc must train in the US to practice.
I was asking a question and the same people advocate against anything that might demand responsibility out of people.
Gugi,
BTW, yes, I observe language barriers daily where I am at and get to witness many mistakes because the docs can't understand the patients, and the truth is that the translators aren't that much help. Yes, I am protectionist. But, no I don't care who practices because if people want substandard care, they can choose it. However, docs training in the US should be able to fill out a survey about their program of study without having a language barrier.
Sorry to all the people whom I may offend. Everyone has their own opinion and its equal or better than mine.

Originally Posted by treydampier

CommieCat.
Obviously you don't know much about the students I am referring to. Many may not be qualified, but some of them have the scores and grades, but Daddy wasn't a doctor or doesn't have the pull to get them in the back door. The school I attend is better than 1/3 of the US schools in both MCAT scores and entering GPA. We go overseas because politics or some twerp keeps us out. Also, the students outscore most of these international grads from foreign countries adn in my school's situation we have the same number of 99th percentile test takers as Harvard on the USMLE. The reason they get hired is because the department heads themselves are foreign, NOT because the quality is better. Plus these US students who leave, have bachelor's degrees where most foreigners do not. That is why a US doc can practice the world over, yet a foreign trained doc must train in the US to practice.
I was asking a question and the same people advocate against anything that might demand responsibility out of people.

Well are we talking about students in general, or the specific ones that you know? I'm speaking in generalities; there are some US students who go to school overseas because of lower requirements.

Patients are responsible for choosing their doctor. Just because I don't want to shift the onus of communication from patient to doctor doesn't mean I'm anti-responsibility. Choosing to become a doctor is asking for probably the most-demanding responsibility possible. On the list of things I look for in a doctor, their fluency in English is well behind education and experience.

Again, not all patients have the option of choosing their doctor. Particularly in emergency situations or when insurance coverage limits options. Fluency in English should be part of their education and experience. The point going further - there need to be stricter guidelines on what qualifies as fluency. Being able to spell a few choice words or figure their way through a conversation should not qualify. Doctors, necessarily, are placed in demanding situations and we should not allow for trivial communication errors that can easily be avoided - let alone facilitate them.