Thread: Court marshall or not?

SeALs are some of the most professional soldiers in the world, they should behave as such.

I think it is impossible for those with no personal experience to understand how those soldiers have to live and work every day. It is also impossible to say what really happened in this case based on the single article of only one media. That's why full and neutral investigation needs to be done.

In general: There are certain rules of using the force (do not know the exact English term) and how to behave in various situations regarding the use of force. Getting little over the top is understandable human behavior in the hazarding situations but it is not acceptable, specially for the trained professionals.

I do not fancy terrorists so i hope that they at least gave the bloody lip to the right person. The guy is lucky to be alive.
If that person later shows up to be innocent then it is time to watch who did what and why to the innocent people. Beating innocents is brutalism and should always be punished. It is also a perfect way to seed new terrorists.
I'm not saying anything about lying because that is always bad thing.
My sympathies for those SEALs. They are innocent until proven guilty.

Since the detainee came through his arrest only having the wind knocked out of him and a fat lip (I routinely sustained worse in an afternoon of touch football at the age of seven), I would tend to give the servicemen the benefit of the doubt. That they didn't cop to plea deal lends credibility as well. If the same thing happened here with the police, it wouldn't get a second look. We haven't heard any detials, but I would believe the terrorist resisted something and was forced to comply. Big deal. If you want to play rough, you get knocked around a little. Deal with it. Its not like they water-boarded him

Jordan

Originally Posted by JMS

So what do you guys think? Seal gives a terrorist a fat lip and 3 of the seal members are now facing court marshall.
What are your thoughts? Here is the story:
FOXNews.com - GOP Reps. Want Charges Dropped Against SEALs Accused of Abusing Terror Suspect

If anyone can find other articles from other websites on this matter please post them.

No do not drop the charges.
Find them guilty of not using sufficient force to ENSURE that the
suspect was unable to return fire. A punch in the stomach
and a fat lip clearly places the rest of the team at risk and is
clearly insufficient force.

Originally Posted by JMS

You seem to be suggesting that I am not paying attention to history. I wonder if you would be willing to point out the bit of history I am turning a blind eye to?

Yes, the bits where a nation with strong military killed off its terrorist enemies. More than enough examples of terrorism in the history of the world, you pick your favorite and tell me how it ended. Then look at that society and tell me you'd rather have that to the one you currently live in. What I'm saying is that these things come at a hefty cost and the americans, you including, are unwilling to pay that cost.

Who is driving this?

• Is some network looking for ratings?
• Is some pencil neck trying to get promoted?
• Is some anal twit prosecuting some real but minor infraction?
• Is some election hinging on this?

All in all I find that too many idiots forget that
life is not tidy and waging war is even less so.

Folks forget that junk yard dogs do more than
guard the yard. Then make messes and on
occasion bite the trespasser. And least anyone
take offense at the comparison to a junk yard
dog these guys have to have teeth and be quick
to bite when called to task.

Do send a letter to your legislators. You can scold
our legislators any way that fits. You can scold
them for not protecting these soldiers or you can
scold the legislators for embarking on the conflict.
These legislators are in charge and they own the
situation at many many levels.

I am outraged by the naive, inane, childish view of
reality that lets anyone find fault with what I
know about this.

Bottom line it is wrong to believe that war is tidy.

Not, our soldiers have enough to worry about, being shot at and IEDs and all, they shouldnt have to worry about being taken to court too. War is hell, if you cant live with that fact, quit sending our troops to other countries. Who were the idiots that thought you could make rules of war, and that anyone would follow them. When it come down to kill or be killed, I think the soldiers should be able to say the guy has a weapon and then shoot him dead, not the guy has a weapon maybe the press back home wont take my side, maybe I better let him alone. Anything that makes the decision making process take longer, is deadly to a soldier. Ask Marcus Lattrell(last lone survivor) and his seal team how that worked for them. FYI Marcus is the only one you can ask, the rest of his team was wiped out, and if it wasnt for those "evil" poppy growers he wouldnt have made it either. The level of political correctness in society is absolutely absurd, and when a war is ran politically correct, more of our soldiers die than need be, wars last longer than need be, and nothing gets accomplished(read a waste of time, resources and lives). Let our soldiers do their jobs, thats what they are paid and trained for, and what they do so well.

Personally, I'm inclined to disbelieve anything broadcast on TP TV.

I rarely wade into these such things, but here goes.

There is a lot of writing in here that suggests shooting this guy would have been the right thing to do, and one comment that hints that shooting him and agreeing they saw a gun may have been acceptable, I disagree, yes we are at war, yes war is hell, but lets be straight here, we are at war in a way that's different from conventional warfare, the enemy are not wearing uniforms, the enemy are not wearing insignia, and thus the enemy are not immediately distinguishable from the man in the street, and that is where our issue lies, you could shoot everyone in the street and say well half of them where armed, that doesn't make it right, and if I remember correctly, it is still perfectly legal for citizens in these countries to own firearms, so being armed is not an indication of being a terrorist, so in a situation like this, yes you have to look at the innocent until proven guilty issue and you have to do it rationally and carefully and definately when making arrests and yes when that is transgressed it has to be investigated.

Now I don't know the in's and outs of this particular case, and neither does anyone else here from what I can see, but the simple fact is the military has a code of justice for a reason, and it's not a soldiers choice whether he follows it or not, he gave up that choice when he swore himself to the military, if they broke the law in their terms they deserve to be held accountable for that. You don't say you'll follow the rules except when it might get scary or hard. Whether or not there were contributing factors that made any tof what they did a necessity is for a court to decide.

Geek

Back when it was a better world, things were Black & White or certainly more Black & White than they are now. The graying of matters results from those with an agenda who look to events like this to forward whatever their agenda might be. As the actual facts of an incident rarely if ever fit just right to prove a person's postion, a person will often use bits n' pieces they feel best proves their beliefs. The step into an incident with their minds already made up and look to only what establishes them as being right.

The military, police , etc. have often been the Watch Dog of our social and political conscience, watch dog in the sense that they kick the dog if he barks in the middle of the night...and then kick the dog when he doesn't bark and an intruder gets in the home.

First, I'll qualify, my opinion only; the fact that this issue has become international news for the period of time it has, (and it's not over yet), should point to what is stated in the above...there's a lot of people out here using this incident for their own purpose...turn public sentiment against the military...effort to degrade the morale of our military as they know that these issues do not escape their attention...another might be the government itself, showing the world how righteous we are...anti-war groups feel it necessary to illustrate the inhumane, cruel brutality of our most effective troops...on and on. They, whoever they may be, could give a s**t about what the soldiers, the terrorist, (excuse me, the suspected terrorist), their only interest in this incident is to use whatever facts they can pull from the whole truth to construct an argument for their cause.
By the time they are done, the focus will be on everything but the facts and despite the facts, there will be pressure to find in favor of whoever has the biggest microphone.

The public in a sense hires individuals to be soldiers and police to do what they cannot or would rather not do for themselves and when something a little ugly comes up, they immediately respond with playground rules logic because, they made sure they never had to leave the playground and therefore, it is the only thing they know.

The truth is, we should never have heard of this incident. Absent political agenda, there was a day and still should be where incidents like this would have been reviewed and handled. Today, we have the media steering public opinion this way or that which will only serve to complicate the process and no matter what happens, they will be an unnecessary outcry. The winner in all this will be our enemy...we have given them the material to criticize not matter what happens from this point forth.

There are some things that should not be public knowledge and remain confidential; these types of things the average citizen cannot reason from their living room, patio, teachers break room, employee's lounge, car pool on their way to work, or during a power-walk...they don't get it...never will. If we were told about all the terror schemes in the making, you wouldn't sleep at night...you couldn't process it and really couldn't be expected to...it's out of your league.

My position isn't whether these guys should get a pass on punching the individual in the stomach or for not making a full disclosure statement as accused...my position is that the trouble begins when the public starts making unqualified assessments of these matters...like I stated in a previous post...the fact that the arab national was not convicted but accused has absolutely no place in the argument...it is not a factor of what happened, though, if someone doesn't think about it, they'll go, "that's right, they weren't convicted" and go on to presume that this means the soldiers are therefore wrong-gulity. As stated, some arrests, (all of which take place before conviction), result in violence. If you're a dentist, concentrate on teeth...if you're a mailman, please get the mail out...teachers...teach on.

If you don't know all the facts, give truth a chance...don't offer an opinion! If you haven't been there...ditto! Wise men speak when they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something...