Thread: America Rising

Originally Posted by Bruno

Unpayable credit card debts are stupid, I fully agree.
However, as has already been established, health care insurance wouldn't even need governmental involvement if the current system worked.

Has it been established that as long as government can somehow establish that a system doesn't work, then government is fully justified in taking over? Sounds like a recipe to destroy freedom if ever there was one.

Also, if unpayable credit card debt is stupid, how stupid is the further increased unpayable debt created by another government entitlement program called national health care?

Enormously stupid.

Originally Posted by gugi

Talking about 'taking america back' is cheap, actually fixing something isn't likely to happen.
Just look at the whole tea party movement. There's nothing constructive, except declarations and conflicting interests. It's relatively easy to take the power, what is hard is to be able to do good afterwards.
Look at all the populism out there. Solving the problems of america is hard and from what I've seen americans balk every time when it comes to making the actual hard choices.
No different from most other nations BTW, that's why I am fairly pessimistic. When I see ordinary americans actually reject the cheap political populism and propaganda and be willing to accept that they personally need to sacrifice then I will start believing something can change.

When they start becoming active in the city councils and then start working their way up into the county, state, and federal echelons the will have the government that they desperately need instead of the government they keep whining about. Change for the better will take involvement.

Originally Posted by honedright

Also, if unpayable credit card debt is stupid, how stupid is the further increased unpayable debt created by another government entitlement program called national health care?

Enormously stupid.

This is why the health care system needs a careful overhaul. Because keeping it as-is will make it unpayable in the future as well. It's a complex issue with many things that need to be taken into account.

Originally Posted by honedright

Has it been established that as long as government can somehow establish that a system doesn't work, then government is fully justified in taking over? Sounds like a recipe to destroy freedom if ever there was one.

The govt. isn't taking it over. Just giving another option.

Originally Posted by honedright

Also, if unpayable credit card debt is stupid, how stupid is the further increased unpayable debt created by another government entitlement program called national health care?

Enormously stupid.

How is govt. health care an unpayable debt?

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

The govt. isn't taking it over. Just giving another option.



How is govt. health care an unpayable debt?

Name one U.S entitlement program that has not gone into enormous debt and is not facing bankruptcy. Why would a national health care program be any different?

Why do we need another option? We have in the U.S. over 1200 health insurance companies, plus Medicare. What's one more "option" going to do other than create more spending?

I don't understand why some people believe that government management is the solution to social ills when all throughout history it has proven itself to be just the opposite.

Originally Posted by honedright

Has it been established that as long as government can somehow establish that a system doesn't work, then government is fully justified in taking over? Sounds like a recipe to destroy freedom if ever there was one.

Well, someone has to do something. And the private industry has shown zero interest in making healthcare affordable again. If noone does anything, care provision will remain rotten and families will continue to be bankrupted by medical conditions, putting further strain on the economy.

Originally Posted by honedright

Also, if unpayable credit card debt is stupid, how stupid is the further increased unpayable debt created by another government entitlement program called national health care?

Enormously stupid.

Then again, it could just be that if you eliminate the army of lawyers and the insurance companies from the issue of simply providing care, the end result is much cheaper.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Then again, it could just be that if you eliminate the army of lawyers and the insurance companies from the issue of simply providing care, the end result is much cheaper.

People will agree with you here, but even this is difficult, although noble in its essence:

- Capping the damages paid to victims of malpractice and what not? What if it actually doesn't cover someone's damages. Rendering someone incapable of earning a living has a significant impact on someone's life.
- Capping the policies for these malpractice insurances? Doctors will request even more tests and will likely feel less inclined to take in 'risky' patients due to the limited coverage.
- Removing lawyers from such cases and replacing it with something like a hearing board of medical pros? Doesn't even have a hint of mixed interests, completely reeks of it. And what about the right to the best representation of one's interests?

Once again, the whole circus with expensive support in the courtrooms and what not is not desirable, but even this is a complex thing to rework.

Originally Posted by honedright

Name one U.S entitlement program that has not gone into enormous debt and is not facing bankruptcy. Why would a national health care program be any different?

If you're worried about money then you should be complaining about our military spending. Not about spending money on keeping the citizens healthy.

Originally Posted by honedright

Why do we need another option? We have in the U.S. over 1200 health insurance companies, plus Medicare. What's one more "option" going to do other than create more spending?

Uh because a lot of people can't get private insurance. It's very expensive.
Private insurance will just continue to raise prices.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

.
Private insurance will just continue to raise prices.

It's naive to believe that a government program will do better. Prices will go up, or services will be cut. How could it be any other way?

Originally Posted by honedright

It's naive to believe that a government program will do better. Prices will go up, or services will be cut. How could it be any other way?

Prices are already going up.

And universal health care is working just fine in other countries.

Look at how well it works in Sweden.

And like I said before if you're so worried about money then cut some military spending. There will be plenty of money then.