Thread: Are We Incrementally Losing Our Freedom?

Originally Posted by honedright

But Franklin was a womanizing, drunken hedonist, who abandoned his wife, leaving her to fend for herself, and cheated on her with horny french women. So who cares what he said.

I'm not idolizing the man, anyone could have said it. I just agree with the idea.

Let us pray that governments don,t cotton on to this little gem from history. Hitlers "Enabling Act of 1933" Five small paragraphs that virtually binned a constitution overnight and all done legally!

Originally Posted by AussiePostie

Let us pray that governments don,t cotton on to this little gem from history. Hitlers "Enabling Act of 1933" Five small paragraphs that virtually binned a constitution overnight and all done legally!

Too late. Rewind to 2007, when Bush quietly signed into law a re-vamped Patriot Act, allowing everything from Executive overruling of the judicial branch, to Constitutional breeches, to silencing of protests, to suspension of Habeas Corpus, to pervasive wiretapping and spying.

Some of these things are enabled by extremely vague wording, and some are explicitly stated.

It's like a ticking bomb sitting in on our law books.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Too late. Rewind to 2007, when Bush quietly signed into law a re-vamped Patriot Act, allowing everything from Executive overruling of the judicial branch, to Constitutional breeches, to silencing of protests, to suspension of Habeas Corpus, to pervasive wiretapping and spying.

Some of these things are enabled by extremely vague wording, and some are explicitly stated.

It's like a ticking bomb sitting in on our law books.

Gee, makes you wonder what other doosies of laws they are sneaking in the back door, while everyone was argueing about national healthcare?
Nothing like a little diversion for the public, so you can get some real political work done. Oh now I,ve gone all cynical , I hate it when that happens..

Originally Posted by Miner123

I'm not idolizing the man, anyone could have said it. I just agree with the idea.

I was being tongue in cheek.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Too late. Rewind to 2007, when Bush quietly signed into law a re-vamped Patriot Act, allowing everything from Executive overruling of the judicial branch, to Constitutional breeches, to silencing of protests, to suspension of Habeas Corpus, to pervasive wiretapping and spying.

Some of these things are enabled by extremely vague wording, and some are explicitly stated.

It's like a ticking bomb sitting in on our law books.

That law was one of the reasons I am no longer a Republican. Along with the bail outs. I wouldn't vote for a Democrat either so I'm in political no mans land now. Just hope some people with some wisdom come along to straighten our government out. The type that knows that they work for us and not the other way around.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Too late. Rewind to 2007, when Bush quietly signed into law a re-vamped Patriot Act, allowing everything from Executive overruling of the judicial branch, to Constitutional breeches, to silencing of protests, to suspension of Habeas Corpus, to pervasive wiretapping and spying.

Some of these things are enabled by extremely vague wording, and some are explicitly stated.

It's like a ticking bomb sitting in on our law books.

I am wondering why the current administration has not yet overturned the Patriot Act. I know it was not popular, and there was an opportunity recently get rid of it, but that did not happen.

I think what has happened is that polititians and political parties are like sports teams. People don't really like their home team, but God don't let anybody say anything bad about them. The home team can cheat to win, but don't let anybody else cheat to win. I say this about both parties, not one over the other. We just keep taking the same issue and beating it back and forth over a net. Whoever is in power must be doing a good job with it as viewed by their party.

I do believe that if Bush and the Republicans had created health care reform of the type that was just passed and in the method that is was passed, the same folks that are loving it would be hating it. With all the same stuff even. It just depends who did it.

The thing that I can't figure out is why anyone would take their chances with any proven liars, cheaters, and power brokers over their own abilites? Surely you believe in yourself more than any politician. Surely you value your freedom more than you value the nipple of governments.

This is not going to end well for any side of this debate. This is a story that has replayed itself for thousands of years. It always ends the same way. 99% of the population is miserable but equal, and 1% of the population is rich, happy and controls the other 99%.

Oh well - In Vino Veritas!

Originally Posted by Alembic

Oh well - In Vino Veritas!

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by Alembic

I am wondering why the current administration has not yet overturned the Patriot Act. I know it was not popular, and there was an opportunity recently get rid of it, but that did not happen.

I think what has happened is that polititians and political parties are like sports teams. People don't really like their home team, but God don't let anybody say anything bad about them. The home team can cheat to win, but don't let anybody else cheat to win. I say this about both parties, not one over the other. We just keep taking the same issue and beating it back and forth over a net. Whoever is in power must be doing a good job with it as viewed by their party.

I do believe that if Bush and the Republicans had created health care reform of the type that was just passed and in the method that is was passed, the same folks that are loving it would be hating it. With all the same stuff even. It just depends who did it.

The thing that I can't figure out is why anyone would take their chances with any proven liars, cheaters, and power brokers over their own abilites? Surely you believe in yourself more than any politician. Surely you value your freedom more than you value the nipple of governments.

This is not going to end well for any side of this debate. This is a story that has replayed itself for thousands of years. It always ends the same way. 99% of the population is miserable but equal, and 1% of the population is rich, happy and controls the other 99%.

Oh well - In Vino Veritas!

I'm wondering that too. Obama specifically approved renewal. What the hell. Politicians, man...

You're absolutely right. I think, as a whole, the Democrats are currently less corrupt, but not because they're any better. Because they've been out of power for a while, and they just haven't had the time to buy back all their assets yet. That's why. Give it 10 years, it'll go the other way.

And if Bush was dumb enough to let something like the Patriot Act ride on his historical shoulders, the Dems are going to capitalize on the power, just like the Republicans did.

I agree with you about the health care bill. I remember a few years ago when there was the whole broo-ha-ha about the Mexican border, Bush actually came up with a decent idea.

I can't remember the specifics - I have the memory of a gold fish - but it was something to the effect of a cooperative work program for immigrants. Benefits them, benefits industry, everybody wins. I recall there being a couple things that needed some looking at, but the overarching idea was a good one.

Now, let me be clear. I HATE BUSH. I really, really do.

But that wasn't a bad idea, as I remember it. Eventually the rest of the Republicans strong-armed him into going with that stupid fence idea, but his original plan could have been a good one. I'm sure most people of my political ilk would have agreed if they'd taken the time to look.

But they didn't. Bush did it, so it's bad.

Any other time, they'd be right. But this time, a good idea slipped between the cracks because people jumped to conclusions.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

I remember a few years ago when there was the whole broo-ha-ha about the Mexican border, Bush actually came up with a decent idea. ...

But that wasn't a bad idea, as I remember it. Eventually the rest of the Republicans strong-armed him into going with that stupid fence idea, but his original plan could have been a good one. ...

Good point--I remember a little about that too. I think immigration was one of the few areas where Bush's instincts were pretty good, but as generally seems to have happened, he let his party's right wing call the shots.

~Rich