Thread: An interesting question on a prospective gun law

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

If you are a citizen, you are a citizen and entitled to any and all rights. Criminals will always have the means and desires to circumvent the laws. Most new laws regarding firearm ownership limit the honest and not the criminal, he is bound by no law or code.

I agree with nun2sharp.After all its in your constitution.
Here in the Uk gun sales are outlawed,but it does't stop members of the criminal fraternity and gang members from buying them illegally and running around killing each other.
Besides the terrorist weapon of choice seems to be the automobile packed with explosives.
There are so many ways to be a terrorist i don't see any quick solutions to this problem.
IMHO
Kind regards

Noggs

I was leaning towards no, but then I remembered hearing so many cases about inocent people who are on the terrorist watch list just because they share the same name. If there were no mistakes with the terrorist watch list then I would say no. But now I say maybe.

I'm wondering what it takes to be on a watch list.

And then I wonder how many people are on this list and aren't involved in some sort of covert activity.


In reality, there's no way Big Brother is going to turn over information like this... no way.

Another exclusionary measure is exactly what we need because they work so well...like the No Fly list worked with Faisal Shazad, (Time Square Bomber), he was on a plane when they arrested him...

Here is some more food for thought: According to an internal audit released in September 2007 by the Justice Department, there were 700,000 names on the terrorism watch list, and that list was growing at an estimated 20,000 names/month. There were also serious flaws in the ways in which this information was sorted and updated, as well as in the ways in which people could A) get themselves removed from this list, and B) even find out if they are ON the list to being with.

See the report here: OIG Audit Report 07-41

For more links to public documents about such watch lists, see Watch Lists | American Civil Liberties Union

Originally Posted by hardblues

Another exclusionary measure is exactly what we need because they work so well...like the No Fly list worked with Faisal Shazad, (Time Square Bomber), he was on a plane when they arrested him...

Did you mean to say he was on the 'No Plane' list? As far as I read on the news he didn't fly, so the 'No Fly' list appears to have actually worked. Or is the 'No Fly' list you're mentioning related to keeping the pants unbuttoned/unzipped for easier explosive underwear inspection?

Originally Posted by gugi

Did you mean to say he was on the 'No Plane' list? As far as I read on the news he didn't fly, so the 'No Fly' list appears to have actually worked. Or is the 'No Fly' list you're mentioning related to keeping the pants unbuttoned/unzipped for easier explosive underwear inspection?

Hey Gugi, long time no pun...where ya been buddy? Actually,the term No Fly list was exactly what I intended to say and As far as I read it's purpose is to prevent people on that list from boarding a commercial aircraft for travel in or out of the United States...I'm gonna gamble with a guess here and throw it out there that they may be thinking that flying comes after boarding...but...I really don't know for sure

I had a professor a couple of semesters ago that was on the "no fly" list. He did some environmental protesting in the 60's. Something about strip mining in Kentucky. The guy is in his 80's now and can't board an airplane.

Usually I'm a bit more 'middle of the road'...

But there are sometimes days when I think everyone over the age of 21 should be REQUIRED to take firearms safety courses and carry a firearm. It would give those intent on wrong doing a hell of a lot more pause, considering the immediate, heavy, final retribution they would face from everyone around them... it would force people to start taking more responsibility for their own protection and safety... and it would force people to stop trading in hard won freedoms for the ILLUSION of safety. In the words of Ben Franklin, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

In the end, if someone is nuts or criminally intent on causing harm, they're going to find a way to do it. If a stranger nonchalantly walking past you suddenly turned and smacked you in the skull with a rock or screw driver hidden in his pocket ... or your neck with a straight razor just as easily hidden under his sleeve cuff... it'd be just as deadly as a bullet.

... requiring all adults to carry would probably do wonders to reduce overcrowding of the prison system too.

Of course, there are also days where I shudder to imagine a world without a firearms purchase waiting period...

Originally Posted by LarryP

Innocent until proven guilty if you're a citizen. If you're a citizen & got on the watch list because you've committed a felony, then no gun. If you're a citizen & got on the watch list because some bureaucrat with dough between his/her ears just thought it was a good idea, then said bureaucrat can go pound sand. If you're not a citizen, no matter what the circumstances, then you don't get to own a gun here. Period. This is how it would work if I was in charge. Just my .02 worth.

Yet it's actually easier for a "resident" non-citizen to buy a gun than a US citizen

Originally Posted by ehammers

Here is some more food for thought: According to an internal audit released in September 2007 by the Justice Department, there were 700,000 names on the terrorism watch list, and that list was growing at an estimated 20,000 names/month. There were also serious flaws in the ways in which this information was sorted and updated, as well as in the ways in which people could A) get themselves removed from this list, and B) even find out if they are ON the list to being with.

See the report here: OIG Audit Report 07-41

For more links to public documents about such watch lists, see Watch Lists | American Civil Liberties Union

The federal gov't also lost something like 300 guns from officers leaving them in bathrooms, etc. Makes you wonder...

One of the pastors at my church David Allen was once held up for quite a long time when boarding a plane for England as apparently David Allen was one of the head mob bosses around there or something...