? FROM THE ' WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE ' THREAD

[paco]

I would like some opinions of what the meaning or the difference between ATHEIST and AGNOSTIC. I'm asking this because i have heard so many different answers. Just wondering what are the thoughts of some of you here?
This is for my curosity only not to start a debate.

Thanks

[Gldbird1]

Well, you could always start at the beginning - with what the words literally mean. Both are called alpha privatives in ancient Greek; the leading "a" expresses a negation. So, a-theist literally means no or without god; a-gnostic means no or without knowledge.

[gssixgun]

the complicated version...

Strong agnosticism (also called "hard," "closed," "strict," or "permanent agnosticism")

the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience. A strong agnostic would say, "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you."

Weak agnosticism (also called "soft," "open," "empirical," or "temporal agnosticism")

the view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if any evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day when there is evidence we can find something out."

Apathetic agnosticism (also called Pragmatic agnosticism)

the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity, but since any deity that may exist appears unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic

Agnostic atheism

Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not have belief in the existence of any deity, and agnostic because they do not claim to know that a deity does not exist.^[15]

Agnostic theism

the view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence.

Ignosticism

the view that a coherent definition of a deity must be put forward before the question of the existence of a deity can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition is not coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of a deity is meaningless or empirically untestable. A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept "a deity exists" as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against. An ignostic cannot even say whether he/she is a theist or a nontheist until a sufficient definition of theism is put forth.

<sup>Simply put There might be "A God(s)" but you nor I can prove it, definition of "a God(s)" being a Cognitive entity...


Atheist= There is no Cognitive entity, period....

That however, does NOT, rule out anything else as in, Afterlife, Re-incarnation, or any other belief...</sup>

[holli4pirating]

As I understand it, athiests believe there is no god/gods while agnostics suspend judgement.

[HNSB]

Much like the above, to me, an atheist believes there is no god and an agnostic isn't sure.

[BingoBango]

As mentioned, atheists specifically believe there is no god. Agnostics are a little more difficult to describe. Some have simply not decided, some have decided that they don't know, and some have decided that humans can not know - as in they are incapable of knowing. (Glen's links might be a little more informative and touches on some more specific types of agnosticism.)

I personally think the last question - Are humans capable of understanding god? - is the most interesting. It generates all sorts of questions about the limits of our understanding, our ability to define deities, the limitations of god(s), what it means to be "omnipotent" or "omniscient" or any other "all-whatever" qualities, etc. I think the ability to ask these questions seriously lends one to be agnostic.

IIRC, Bertrand Russell talked a lot about agnosticism. Wikipedia would know. My BA in Philosophy only gets you this much info.

[paco]

Thanks Glen, that's what i was trying to get at, so many different thoughts, but now i know they have names.

[Morty]

At various times in my life I have been labeled: a Roman Catholic, An atheist, a born again Christian, and a Humanist. I have since become a student of A Course In Miracles (ACIM) and that is where I found my home.

From the Web site : Who is an atheist? agnostic? theist? - some definitions

"To summarize, atheism is a lack of belief in god. Basic atheism (of the non-strong variety) on its own does not positively assert anything regardless of what some atheists may say or think and regardless of what theists frequently define as atheism."

and:

"When you break down the word agnostic, you come up with a term meaning "without knowledge" or "unknowable". The word agnostic isn't a very old word. Despite this fact, T.H. Huxley, who created the term, used it to mean our modern definition of 'scientist' more than anything else. The word has changed meaning over the years, and people have tended to use the term as a sort of middle ground between atheism and theism. In my opinion, such a middle ground doesn't exist. One either asserts that there is a god or they lack such an assertion. Agnostics have labeled themselves as such because they don't understand the definition of atheism or because they have heard only about the 'strong atheists' who do make a positive assertion that there is no god and they don't personally hold such a strong assertion.".

Morty again: There is more to read on that Web site. However, the more you search, the more conflicting answers you can turn up. Labels are for jars. The only thing that matters is what your beliefs are and the one they matter most to is you.
Namaste,
Morty -_-

[Pete_S]

As has been pointed out in this thread, there are two different ways of defining the two, the common way, and the complicated way. (I personally thought the common way was correct till the internet, personally). But commonly, if someone says they are an atheist, it means that they firmly don't think a deity or afterlife exists. If they say they are an agnostic it means they don't know if one does, and don't affiliate themselves with organized religion.

The more complicated way has to do with degrees of disbelief, ect. Glen and Morty posted examples. if you google "agnostic vs atheist" you can find all kinds of in-depth discussions on it.

[Desdinova]

Much like the above, to me, an atheist believes there is no god and an agnostic isn't sure.

further to that, my understanding is than an athiest has no belief in what cannot be seen. No God(s), psychics, UFOs etc