Thread: Theodore Roosevelt's on Immigrants in 1907.

As far as the "demanding assimilation" issue goes, it could be argued that the country (or culture) that is attractive enough to draw in immigrants has the right to decide what the requirements are.

As for the Europeans not assimilating when they came to North America, it's apples and oranges. They were coming to create their own society - not to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Native Americans had created with theirs.

(FWIW, I don't have strong opinions one way or the other, so I won't be arguing any of the above. I'm just presenting some thoughts that occurred to me.)

It is interesting that Texas has so many settlers from Mexico who consider themselves Mexicans but live in Texas. This is the opposite of the situation that existed before Texas gained its independence. Many Americans settled in Texas, then part of Mexico, and considers themselves American (or Texicans). This is not an argument for any particular point of view, just an observation.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Did the first settlers assimilate, or did they annihilate? How do you tell people that they must assimilate to an arbitrary culture that made no attempt themselves to assimilate with the culture that was here when they first arrived as refugees?

Tricky questions, I think.

Well they're tricky only if you want to claim some moral high ground. I'd allow everybody the option to annihilate if they want to (or wanna). And if/when they succeed they can impose klignon, aramaic, LOLCODE, or anything else they desire, as the language of the land.

As a legal matter, US does not have an official language and only about half of the states have instituted such over the last 30 or so years (Texas is not among them). Which means that language is just a tool to function in a society and if you have language troubles, you better start learning yourself, instead of trying to force other people to do it.

Originally Posted by The Dude

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us...

This is indeed being done. I think it is important, however, to make the distinction between "immigrant" and "American Citizen." Immigrants come in to the country, and are given 10 years, according to current laws, to become a US citizen. To do so, he must pass an english language test and one regarding citizenship and government.

I guess the rest of the arguments revolve around whether cultural / ethnic pride is something that goes against being a citizen. When on one hand, you have Italian Americans celebrating the Festival of San Gennaro, Irish Americans celebrating St. Patrick's Day, Chinese Americans celebrating Chinese New Year, African Americans celebrating Kwanza, and so on, I think that Mexican Americans riding around with Mexican flags on Cinco de Mayo isn't all that different, is it?

Originally Posted by The Dude

...he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.

What he said.

Anyway, politicians come and go, and say things to please their constituents. That is why we have laws. Imagine if someone quoted GW a century from now as gospel truth?

If Teddy said that today, I seriously doubt he would be re-elected.

My great grandmother-may she rest in peace, emigrated from Russia to the US.

From the day she arrived until the day she died, she spoke not one word of English.

So what's my point?

Originally Posted by Jimbo

But how do you define it? And what about the culture that was indigenous? Did the first settlers assimilate, or did they annihilate? How do you tell people that they must assimilate to an arbitrary culture that made no attempt themselves to assimilate with the culture that was here when they first arrived as refugees?

Tricky questions, I think.

James.

Because the indigenous people did not have a set of immigration rules and regulations to abide by. The tribes of America were at war and the first settlers just managed to get here at a good time with better weapons. They did annihilate but no one was going to stop them. And to the winner goes the spoils. And if it were to happen today, say China took over, I would do my damnedest to learn their language(s) as fast as possible.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

You often see TONS of Mexican flags on vehicles and storefronts. My question to that is simply, if things are so much better, why are you here? Ive seen houses that have the Mexican Flag hanging without any signs of the American flag. Now, I am of Hispanic lineage, and my loyalty is toward America. My Mexican Grandfather always loves to say, If a war breaks out tomorrow in Mexico, lets see how many of these people waving their flags and are "puro mexicanos" go back down south and help fight the fight.

Then again many southerners still display the confederate flag. It's just the sort of thing people do.

firstly let me state that i didn't read everyone's replies.. i should have.. but i felt like responding after have only read a few..

anyway.. i'm not a full blooded native american indian by definition.. my mother was a chumash indian from california and my father is half rosebud sioux and half english.. he grew up and still lives on the rosebud reservation in south dakota.. i grew up on my mother's side of the family.. chumash land stretches the coast of california as far south as malibu.. i live in santa monica.. it's 5 minutes south of malibu.. as far as i'm concerned.. i live in my native land..

the chumash were colonized by spanish missionaries.. and forced to learn spanish.. before that my people spoke inezeno.. they were later assimilated into the united states and forced to learn english..

as a citizen of the united states and more importantly a person living in los angeles.. i speak english and enough spanish to function with spanish speaking people of los angeles.. the united states is a melting pot of every nation.. immigrants make up this nation..

i'm not sure what it is that i'd really like to state.. but i would like to also point out that there is a difference between america and the united states..

The world is constantly changing. Whether that change is for the better or worse depends on your place in the world.
The problem with quoting long dead politicians is that it is very likely that they would see things differently now and make different speeches.
The United Kingdom is very much a melting pot of different peoples, in the town where I was born Polish is spoken as much as English. Why? because the Poles work hard and are willing to do jobs that many English people won't do.
The indigenous population population feel that many jobs are beneath them or do not pay enough, especially hard manual work, immigrants flow in to fill the gap.

Oh well, within a few years everyone will be speaking Arabic anyway.