Thread: A question on Christian Scripture.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has set up temptation for me. If I don't have faith in anything else I have faith in that. The closer you come to Christ the more the devil will try and circumvent that. If you begin to come close it will happen, I guarantee it.

And how exactly did Satan tempt you?

Originally Posted by Desdinova

And how exactly did Satan tempt you?

Taking the bait ..... myriad ways, lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and desires of the mind as noted in Ephesians 2. There is also pride, envy, sloth etcetera. For a more complete overview see this Wiki page here.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Taking the bait ..... myriad ways, lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and desires of the mind as noted in Ephesians 2. There is also pride, envy, sloth etcetera. For a more complete overview see this Wiki page here.

and none of these things ever happened before you found Him?

Sorry Jimmy. Not buying the "tempted by Satan" argument. None of the issues listed are not part of the human psyche that have been with us since clay was formed into a Man.

You have just become more cognizant of your emotions.

Originally Posted by Desdinova

and none of these things ever happened before you found Him?

Sorry Jimmy. Not buying the "tempted by Satan" argument. None of the issues listed are not part of the human psyche that have been with us since clay was formed into a Man.

You have just become more cognizant of your emotions.

No need for the 'sorry'. I have my belief system and you have yours. I am not intending to convert you to mine so there is no argument.

Gentlemen,

Sorry to comment as a non-religious person, but just have to say that this has been most interesting conversation here to read and lurk. I have to thank you all this far for being capable of civilized discussion without turning such a hot subject into mud throwing.
I do not believe i've seen too many forums with a gentlemen like you all.

Originally Posted by Sailor

Gentlemen,

Sorry to comment as a non-religious person, but just have to say that this has been most interesting conversation here to read and lurk. I have to thank you all this far for being capable of civilized discussion without turning such a hot subject into mud throwing.
I do not believe i've seen too many forums with a gentlemen like you all.

A big part is to not realize that someone with differing beliefs from your own is not a personal attack.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has set up temptation for me. If I don't have faith in anything else I have faith in that. The closer you come to Christ the more the devil will try and circumvent that. If you begin to come close it will happen, I guarantee it. Kevin, since you are so fond of quoting scripture I would draw your attention to;

Matthew 18

¹At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
²And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
³And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
⁴Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

If you're of an intellectual bent you may eventually get there but a little child who is not filled with skepticism and trying to pick the scriptures apart will get there quicker. I'll also leave you with this quote from William Shakespeare, a man who had a way with words, "The devil can site scripture for his own purpose! An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek." [Merchant Of Venice]

Am I an evil soul; picking the scriptures apart?
This appears to be what you suggest. That is okay if what follows is deeper awareness of true reality.

Admittedly, I did omit a word. Which was to show that even without, the statement remained weighty and intact. However I have not wrestled the scripture to bend it to my meaning, so that it says other than what it says plainly and directly.

then why did you say there is no Devil, thus diminishing the victory of Christ?

I did not say that there is no devil. However, there is no perception of the devil other than that which occurs in the mind. Whereas the perception of God arises beyond mind, beyond thought. It is as I said earlier; a perception of the eternal, even though everything we observe is temporary.



----

Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all, “If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me.


What is the cross? It was a very public, cruel, painful means of execution. It must cause a lot of suffering to die on a cross. Yet what makes it such a powerful spiritual symbol is that it was transformed through the grace of God from evil to good. (From suffering to ascension)
As you know when the apostle's found out that Jesus was to be crucified they were pretty upset, when he died they left wondering what was that about? It was the worst thing that could have happened as they saw it.

³⁶And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
(This is surrendering to the situation whatever it may be. This is acceptance. In this sense the words acceptance and surrender are given spiritual meanings it does not mean to give up or stop trying.)


I must say this was quite a worry for me. What if the worst thing that will happen to me has not happened yet. What if I must endure more suffering. Should I get closer to God and have the devil test me further and more intensely? I don't want that.
Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? ... But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given unto you.
I have been sitting here for a long time this evening. It started to sound like a hidden agenda coming to fruition as what I was writing was not in strict agreement with teaching as it is in Christian Churches. I am no teacher, preacher; continuing in a direction which had already began to creep in is inappropriate in light of my original post. So I delete the rest of what I have written and replace it with this apology for any offense.
I trust that you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

I have to agree with Jimmy on this one as well. My wife and I were recently talking about how frustrating it is to be getting closer to God and learning his word more and more, IE maturing, and having that danged ole' Satan always lurking in the midst. I remembe back when I was a "spiritual" person, but not a Christian and I have to say that Satan didn't really need spend much time on me because he "had" me. Again, I'm with you Jimmy on believing that the thoughts are sins & my biggest weakenss now. As I "mature", I am slowly, I repeat "slowly" getting better as my faith grows. I just feel as though I am failing Him more than I praise Him...it's a viscious circle. I am simply SO THANKFUL he's still here with me as I grow, stumble, and grow some more...

Originally Posted by Desdinova

and none of these things ever happened before you found Him?

Sorry Jimmy. Not buying the "tempted by Satan" argument. None of the issues listed are not part of the human psyche that have been with us since clay was formed into a Man.

You have just become more cognizant of your emotions.

Havent you read the story of Eve in the garden, or Judas at the last supper, havent you read the book of Job. or the gospels account of Jesus in the wilderness.. If you read the Gospels you will find out that there are 4 areas of Jesus' ministry and they would be as follows;teaching, healing, miracles and the casting out of demons.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Do you believe that God created us with sin already a part of our nature. And not that sin began with the act of disobedience in eating the apple. At least in mankind. Or am I miss interpreting what you meant.

I believe God created us in his image like scripture says and I believe God is without fault or sin he is Prefect. So if he created us in his image why would he put sin in our nature? I believe he gave us free will to fallow him. because that gives him joy to have his creation chose to love and worship him as there creator. That free will allowed Eve to make the dissuasion to disobey and sin when tempted by the snake who I believe was Satan in the form of a snake. But I do not believe there was sin in Adam and Eve till that point.

Originally Posted by Desdinova

and none of these things ever happened before you found Him?

Sorry Jimmy. Not buying the "tempted by Satan" argument. None of the issues listed are not part of the human psyche that have been with us since clay was formed into a Man.

You have just become more cognizant of your emotions.