A question on Christian Scripture.

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Originally Posted by kevint

Being forgiven of God is something you take on faith or accept through faith. I'm not sure how it feels, especially if you must return every day with another list of misdeeds.
Even though we are forgiven, we still have our flesh which is corrupt and sometimes we follow that. But knowing and repenting, in other words keeping a short list with God, confess and repent. All will be well.

(I know that it says if you break one rule you have broken them all, or perhaps one could say there is no relative sense of a greater or lesser crime as there is in man's justice system.)
Jesus was saying here that those trying to acheive salvation through works, it would be impossible , that is why He came to save by grace.

Something which is a bit more "experienceable" to believer and non- ;is forgiving others; and forgiving yourself. When you forgive; you are acting the way God acts and there is no better way to behave. T or F?
TRUE

It seems like; with this idea of Salvation, that the belief is, there is a separation between man and God. This seems to be the case.
Since Christ's ressurection separation is only between non-believers and God.

However; it seems to me(correct me if wrong) That the view from the Church side is that God is separate from us and we must beg him to return.
We do not have to beg. God has by grace, [freely given us that which we do not deserve], given us the ability to come to Him directly by Faith by the Blood of Jesus.

The way it feels from my human being style perspective is that we have separated ourselves from God.
We were separated by the sin of Adam.

I am pretty sure that it says in the Bible that in heaven, or on the new earth that we will not be the same person as during our earthly life experience....
When you die to yourself, when you adopt the mind of Christ, should I say; if you are truly born again- what is your identity- who are you now?
We are co-heirs with Christ to the kingdom of heaven.

This of course is way out there. We also have practical matters of daily living. Jesus too most likely had practical matters to attend to- he still had to breathe, drink and eat, all the bodily functions and yes, maybe even work on occasion...
Even in all this His main focus was the will of the Father, as it should be for us. All of the practical matters do as if we were doing it for Him.

...It is a tangled up

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Don't try to take it all in so fast. Read the Word, Pray for enlightenment, and don't analize, let it talk to you.

When you say separated by the sin of Adam; who was separated from whom/ Are you saying that God withdrew his essence from man? That he turned his back on man?

What we have as it were is a self created identity. Not to be taken in the freudian sense, but it is sometimes called the ego. You could call it the sin nature if you want to, or you could call it the carnal mind.

Or as Abraham found out was he/is he/isn't he right there inside us waiting for us to be still and quiet so we will recognize that presence withing us?

This is the awareness I was speaking of earlier, not the awareness that I am typing on the computer, or aware the hour has slipped past my bedtime; but, the awareness of Being, the internal awareness of the Eternal.

This is, at the deepest level, who we are. Pure consciousness you might say. The way I see it. God is not a distant being way out in space somewhere. God is Being. That is what makes all these atomic-subatomic vibrations of energy into a seamless, manifest reality.

I think one could accept that and still be a Christian......

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Originally Posted by kevint

When you say separated by the sin of Adam; who was separated from whom/ Are you saying that God withdrew his essence from man? That he turned his back on man?
No, Man chose to disobey and God left him to his own choices there after.

What we have as it were is a self created identity. Not to be taken in the freudian sense, but it is sometimes called the ego. You could call it the sin nature if you want to, or you could call it the carnal mind.
Yes, I agree.

Or as Abraham found out was he/is he/isn't he right there inside us waiting for us to be still and quiet so we will recognize that presence withing us?
At that time with Abraham, Not within.

This is the awareness I was speaking of earlier, not the awareness that I am typing on the computer, or aware the hour has slipped past my bedtime; but, the awareness of Being, the internal awareness of the Eternal.
I'm not sure i'm understanding what your saying here, however i think it is more of wanting more of an awareness of God than self and wanting to know Him.

This is, at the deepest level, who we are. Pure consciousness you might say. The way I see it. God is not a distant being way out in space somewhere. God is Being.
I would say God is A Being, not just being like some believe that God is or is in everything.

That is what makes all these atomic-subatomic vibrations of energy into a seamless, manifest reality.
Have no idea what you just said here,
I think one could accept that and still be a Christian......

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so cannot comment on the above statement.

I did the same searching and analyzing when I was being pinged by the Spirit. A lot of intellectualizing. Once I understood the significance of the cross visa vis what God demands as a propitiation for sin I had to feel the need of a savior. To feel that I had to understand that I was a sinner. Once I came to the place, reading the 1st chapter of Romans, that I knew the bible was true, I felt that need. The intellectualizing stopped and the belief started through faith. As far as the 'new man', Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven. A cliche but one of those that is true. Read Paul the apostle's seventh chapter of Romans beginning at verse 7 for more on that.

God did not turn His back on man, man turned his back on God thru his disobedience. Man broke the relationship.

God is everywhere but he is not in everything, although he created the tree he does not reside in that tree, the tree is his creation. They are two separate entities, one dependent on the other, the other dependent on nothing but Himself. The difference between you and the tree is this God does want to live within and with you. This was his original intent and He has not changed his mind.

To me it seems difficult to describe what I have said as intellectualizing; especially if you go back a few pages where I suggested the first thing we need to do is set time aside to learn how not to think. To simply be still and quiet.

It would be easy enough to simply drop the discussion.

Why is God not present in every fiber of his creation?

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Originally Posted by kevint

Why is God not present in every fiber of his creation?

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Because it is creation, it is not Himself or in His image.

The kind of mysticism that teaches that God is in all things leads us into the worship of creation and ourselves as little divinities and away from the Creator.

What do you mean by worship? I do not see how seeing God in everything leads to worship of nature or the self. Though it has not been mentioned so far; it is important to recognize that what we are discussing is beyond full understanding, beyond words-there's only so much we can express with words.

I think it is probably enough to let every moment be as it is, and every action surrendered to God to be your worship. Rituals and such rites are just another; form, of self defining and limiting actions.

Christians are not perfect; amen;)/ So tell me why they simply do not act on the scripture: All things are possible.... or ask and ye shall receive; etc, etc?

Ultimately it does not matter so much to me what someone believes in
I don't feel the need to change your mind. We could always stop talking about Christ and go be the Christ instead- which is perhaps the answer to my original question.

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Originally Posted by kevint

Christians are not perfect; amen;)/ So tell me why they simply do not act on the scripture: All things are possible.... or ask and ye shall receive; etc, etc?

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I don't know all Christians but I'm sure many of them do to the best of their ability. In the meanwhile give it a try. :tu

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Originally Posted by kevint

What do you mean by worship? I do not see how seeing God in everything leads to worship of nature or the self. Though it has not been mentioned so far; it is important to recognize that what we are discussing is beyond full understanding, beyond words-there's only so much we can express with words.

I think it is probably enough to let every moment be as it is, and every action surrendered to God to be your worship. Rituals and such rites are just another; form, of self defining and limiting actions.

Christians are not perfect; amen;)/ So tell me why they simply do not act on the scripture: All things are possible.... or ask and ye shall receive; etc, etc?

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Ok, there is nothing wrong with seeing the hand of God at work in the Universe, maybe I mis understood the point you were trying to make. By all means enjoy creation, it is what he has made it for. My apologies, I believe we are actually seeing eye to eye on this one, I can marvel at the simplest things in nature and wonder about the hand that created it.

As for believers that believe that all things are possible.....they are out there and doing fine, they are doing the works of Him who has sent them.