Printable View
I remember it as like it was yesterday when the HS came into me. I don't remember the date, but it was an amazing experience. I remember that it actually gave me goosebumps and an unusual sense of calm of being. When someone asks me how I am doing & I reply "I am blessed", I mean it. I know it and feel it every day. Give it all to Him, everything, you will get it twofold back...
Hi LX. I knew this would come up. Free will. I know that if asked whether i'd like vanilla or chocolate ice cream that I can choose the one I prefer freely.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
It is harder to confirm we have free will in a larger sense, especially if some are predestined as in Romans 8:28-30
<sup class="versenum" id="en-TNIV-28137">28</sup> And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who <sup class="footnote" value="[<a href="#fen-TNIV-28137a" title="See footnote a">a</a>]">[a]</sup> have been called according to his purpose. <sup class="versenum" id="en-TNIV-28138">29</sup> For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. <sup class="versenum" id="en-TNIV-28139">30</sup> And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:3-5
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29210">3</sup>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29211">4</sup>According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29212">5</sup>Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
You might as well go ahead and call yourself a Christian, you have already started the journey. Like a toddler and his first steps you have stepped forward, wobbled and then fell down only to get back up and go again, now Imagine your Father in front of you with a big smile and outstretched arms cheering you on just waiting for you to walk into his embrace so that he can pick you up and hold you high and show you off to the world. This is the relationship you have at the moment, should you continue and mature the steps will become stronger and more confident but the game will remain the same, we take a step, we fall, he picks us up and we try again. This is faith!
We could not do it without the provocation or the support of the Holy Spirit, welcome home brother! Its just a matter of time before you have to change the sig line.LOL
Being predestined doesn't mean that we don't have free will. He calls us through the Gospel "Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God". He predestined that those who believe will be his children/the elect. John 1:12 "To all who received him, to those who believe on his name, he gave the right to become children of God". We are commanded to repent (Acts 17:30)... i.e. turn from the world and turn to God because he's going to judge the world (according to the Bible).
Jesus is the hope of the whole World. That means that we all have the option of being saved. God isn't going to pick and choose who becomes saved based on some type of arbitrary whim. Or at least if he does, it's not consistent with the teaching of the Bible.
BTW, on all these posts, please understand that I'm not pushing my agenda on anything. I'm merely telling people what the Bible says. I personally believe it, but I don't push myself/my beliefs on people. And, I welcome correction if I am wrong because I think it matters :)
I will not say that I did it exactly right. I did explain a little in my reply to Lee.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
What actually seemed to happen to me was simply that I believed less with doing more . Since then I've read several of Joe Campbell's books, some on other religions, from other religions. (Not enough to be deeply knowledgeable but familiar enough.)
I wondered, maybe all I actually know about is popular Christianity what pop music is to real music. I do not want to sound condescending, or offend any of you but some things: the angry old man in the sky, physical human bodies going up into heaven, everlasting torment as a few examples, to me sound like stories for children.
Earlier I quoted a scripture "seek first the kingdom of God" and from another book "the kingdom of God is within" What does that have to do with another spirit entering our body or anything coming from outside us?
(I have had spiritual experiences, glimpses perhaps. I have the perception of something eternal, even though everything I see or know will eventually die or crumble to dust. That perception is impossible unless there is something eternal, just as we could not know yellow if everything were red.)
Within the confines of this thread at least:) You guys may push your agenda, share what you have discovered, show what you have uncovered as you see fit. Just that I did not see the point in arguing over which version or author was the most accurate, just as I wanted to focus on Christianity rather than wade into depths of comparative religious studies- though the common themes of various spiritual teaching would make for an interesting thread I am sure!
Earlier I only wished to convey that I do not have any preset plan to be revealed at the end after you have opened your hearts. (though it did seem necessary to reveal more about the "way it seems to me" more recently) If you are tired already we can stop or if I overlooked your pearl feel free to put it back up
However, I would like you to get into and consider exclusively the words of Jesus. His saying - sin no more- certainly struck me square between the eyes when I first read it many years ago.
I think I am better today than yesterday- I sure dont expect anything to be instantaneous, though I wont not deny that it must be possible.
Not too long ago there was a thread "who are you" I think.(?) I'll say almost everything, even though I'm slightly sure that it was everything, listed was a label, an identity in the world, a description of what we do, or how we act: I am this; I am that.
Having that same mind which is in Christ; shouldn't the correct answer be simply: I am?
I was zealous at one time and then drifted and went through a crisis of faith so to speak. I read Sam Harris and others, Bart Ehrman's books on the origins of the scriptures and problems with the translations. It was in another thread on this topic that I went back to my copy of the Reverend Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones preaching on the sermon on the mount that I posted the following quote. Mystery of the HS. Posting and re-reading that brought me back to the faith.
In his introduction to "Studies In The Sermon On The Mount" he starts out by saying that,"There is nothing more important in the Christian life than the way in which we approach the Bible and the way in which we read it. It is our textbook, it is our only source, it is our only authority. We know nothing about God and about the Christian life in a true sense apart from the Bible. We can draw various deductions from nature (and possibly from various mystical experiences) by which we can arrive at a belief in a supreme Creator. But I think it is agreed by most Christians and it has been traditional throughout the long history of the Church that we have no authority save this Book. We cannot rely solely upon subjective experiences because there are evil spirits as well as good spirits' there are counterfeit experiences. Here, in the Bible is our sole authority."
My 2cents,
Kevint, it seems to me that reading your posts, especially one, that you doubt or are undecided about your christianity.
The only thing you need to know of your salvation is to know how you feel about Jesus Christ. Is he who he says he is, the Son of God, God Incarnate, that he died for your sin and rose from the dead. If one believes this and repents he has eternal salvation.
Romans 10:9,10 "...If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Also i get a sense of needing to do something or do good to be a christian. There is nothing we can do of ourselves to earn salvation.
Amplified Bible (AMP)
<SUP id=en-NIV-en-AMP-29236 class=versenum>8</SUP>For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (<SUP class=footnote value='[a]'>[a]</SUP>delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
<SUP id=en-NIV-en-AMP-29237 class=versenum>9</SUP>Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]
We will not reach perfection until we are in his presence.
If i misunderstood any of the posts i apoligise and please ignore these comments if they a not relevant
Thank you for you input Paco. I trust these questions will not cause you to repent of your participation
Let's say, for the moment at least, that I am unconcerned with Heaven. Is there more to the meaning of Salvation- beyond the reward of heaven?
In Philippians 2 quoted in post 36 there is a very big question there which seems to point out that just as Jesus was in the form of God, that we too have, or at least can have, that same attribute. So it seems that the answer is Yes, he was god incarnate, and so are we. In fact he says we will( I think this means we can, or should be able to) do greater things(miracles) than he.
Do you mean by perfection that we would be sinless? If so, why would Jesus say sin no more if it cannot be done? Maybe it takes a number of steps / little by little. that's okay.
Paco, thanks for the post. I'm assuming that you were referencing me when you made the comment about earning salvation. Saying that being obedient is "earning" anything is specious on its face. I tell my daughter if she does the dishes with me, I'll give her $10 a month. She's 6 and is in the way. She's not earning anything, but I made her a promise and when she does her part, I do mine.
God has done the same thing for us. He sent his son who was made a propitiation for our sins. He then said, believe on him, and be obedient, and we'll be given a home in Heaven. He didn't say, "I'm going to pick and choose who I want to be 'saved', but I'm going to give the whole world a document that tells them that every one has the choice of being saved or not." It is our choice. God isn't making us, and he's not impeding us. It is our choice.
Us believing and being obedient doesn't qualify as "saved through works". That's a ridiculous argument. However, doing what you are told to do and getting the promised reward is still Grace. Jesus said "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that doesn't believe shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). That ties in to what was said in John 1 "To all who received him, to those who believe on his name, he gave the right to become children of God". You see, believe is only part of the game. You have the right to become a child of God when you believe. But before you are obedient, you aren't. Cornelius (Acts 10), Phillipian Jailor (Acts 16), Paul (Acts 9), Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8), etc.... I could keep going.... are good examples of this principle