Thread: A question on Christian Scripture.

Originally Posted by Desdinova

Any New Testament book that is not John. Luke, Mark or Matthew are not the words of Christ.

They are the words and opinions of Paul. Paul never met Jesus and was dead-set against James who did receive the word of Christ directly.



So personally, I only read the 4 books mentioned above.

Easy on that... If you read Galatians, you will see that you're erroneous in that though (unless you are calling him a liar).

Gal. 1

Originally Posted by Paul

¹¹For^V)'>(V) I would have you know, brothers, that^W)'>(W) the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.^c]'>[c] ¹²^X)'>(X) For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it^Y)'>(Y) through a revelation of Jesus Christ. ESV

Additionally, he asked these rhetorical questions in I Cor. 9

Originally Posted by Paul

¹^A)'>(A) Am I not free?^B)'>(B) Am I not an apostle?^C)'>(C) Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?^D)'>(D) Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? ²If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are^E)'>(E) the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

And he certainly was not dead set against James
Back to Gal 1

Originally Posted by Paul

¹⁵But when he^AD)'>(AD) who had set me apart^AE)'>(AE) before I was born,^d]'>[d] and who^AF)'>(AF) called me by his grace, ¹⁶was pleased to reveal his Son to^e]'>[e] me, in order^AG)'>(AG) that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;^f]'>[f] ¹⁷nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
¹⁸Then^AH)'>(AH) after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. ¹⁹But I saw none of the other apostles except James^AI)'>(AI) the Lord’s brother. ²⁰(In what I am writing to you,^AJ)'>(AJ) before God, I do not lie!)

They taught the same things but to get into all that stuff here would require some serious "meat"

The greatest evidence of Paul's Apostleship, IMHO isn't what he said, but what Peter said about him

Originally Posted by Peter

¹⁵And count^AF)'>(AF) the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as^AG)'>(AG) our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you^AH)'>(AH) according to the wisdom given him, ¹⁶as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters.^AI)'>(AI) There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction,^AJ)'>(AJ) as they do the other Scriptures. II Pet. 2

He called him a "beloved brother" and referred to the "wisdom given him" while comparing what he wrote to "other scriptures". That's a pretty hearty endorsement, IMHO.

I think anyone that professes Christianity should think long and hard about flippantly disregarding everything that Paul said. Additionally, the first 4 books of the New Testament aren't the "words of Christ" per se. They are accounts of his life written by men (I believe they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but that's another discussion).

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Easy on that... If you read Galatians, you will see that you're erroneous in that though (unless you are calling him a liar).

I am.


Paul did a lot to discredit the Apostles that actually heard the Word directly from the source.


As far as Paul meeting Christ, it was a vision. Heck, everytime I get off the subway I meet someone new that is also getting visions of Christ.


I find it odd that the only Apostleto follow Paul was Peter. Peter was not the smartest of Apostles. Scripture clearly identifies him as 1) being the muscle of the group (Jesus' bodyguard) AND 2) the one to ask all the dumb questions. Clearly not someone capable of being the first bishop of Rome. He was merely a figurehead with Paul calling the shots in the background.

Clearly, the remaining 10 apostles, Mary Magdelene and Joseph of Arimethea wanted nothing to do with Paul. Especially James, who was Jesus' hand picked successor to head the Church. That says a whole lot right there.


But that is only my opinion and how I view the New Testament. Anyone that chooses to follow the other NT books is correct as that is their own faith and belief.




IMO, all religions are correct. HE knows why you believe what you do and the thought processes that got you to that place.

Originally Posted by LinacMan

If we claim to be followers of Christ, this scripture leaves us no pathway to reconciliation with God except through Jesus Christ. Not Buddha, Mohammed, or any other person claiming to be a god or a pathway to God.

This is true. I was talking to a young lady about the good news thirty or so years ago and she told me that it might be true for me but it was not true for everybody. I told her that it is either true for everybody or it is not true for anybody.

Originally Posted by LinacMan

Desdinova,

Could you clarify your quote below. By "all religions" do you include Islam, Buddism, etc., or do you mean Catholicism, and all the Protestant denominations?

Jesus said:
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NIV

If we claim to be followers of Christ, this scripture leaves us no pathway to reconciliation with God except through Jesus Christ. Not Buddha, Mohammed, or any other person claiming to be a god or a pathway to God.

All of the above.

If you will believe that Jesus came to Paul with only Paul's word for it, how is it not possible that God also spoke to Mohommed?


Having read many various religious scriptures, there is about a 95% overlap in what the say.

How are we to know that He did not speak to various peoples of the world in various ways at different points in time?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

This is true. I was talking to a young lady about the good news thirty or so years ago and she told me that it might be true for me but it was not true for everybody. I told her that it is either true for everybody or it is not true for anybody.

How so?

The truth to you is not the same truth to someone else. This is how He came to you but not necessarily how He came to someone on the other side of the world.

I just cannot believe that only the Christian western world will go to heaven and all the Hindus will be going to hell for worshipping a pantheon that predates Christianity.

Originally Posted by LinacMan

Either you accept Christ as THE only way to God or you're forced to reject Him entirely.

So you believe that all the Hindus are going to hell?

It is humbling to know there are so many people who completely understand the workings of God in this thread. I guess I have a way to go.

The initial post is being explained by example, I'm guessing. I fear old Paul would have as much to say to us as he did to the Corinthians if he were around today.

James.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Something that has helped me to interpret scriptures is to read with my wife from different bibles. We typically read NKJ & NCV versions. For some reasons this helps us. I seem to be studying more & more from my NCV bible. Below is the same verses from my NCV by Max Lucado:

1 Corinthians 3
Following People Is Wrong
1.Brothers and sisters, in the past I could not talk to you as I talk to spiritual people. I had to talk to you as I would to people without the Spirit---babies in Christ. 2.The teaching I gave you was like milk, not solid food, because you were not able to take solid food. An even now you are not ready. 3.You are still not spiritual, because there is jealousy and quarreling among you, and this shows that you are not spiritual. You are acting like people of the world.

At our men's bible study this past Tuesday we talked about how a scripture gains depth the more we study the bible and more "mature" our spirit becomes. It was nice to know that my feeling like a "baby" as mentioned above is felt by most of our men in my study group and some of those guys have been Christians as long as I have been alive....

Thank you for this post, it's he first time I have grabbed my bible to quote on the forum, it's usually a razor book that I am quoting.

Scott

Scott the men in your Bible study are a good example of what got me to ask this question. I am not trying to spread doubt but I have to ask: A 2000+ year tradition should be running like a well oiled machine. why is this such a difficult matter for us that after a half-lifetime of study and practice one does not become adept, become a mentor and spiritual guide with a very specific set of steps, practices that prepares/ allows the student to overcome.
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Why are we waiting for this to happen still? or does it happen a lot that I just font know?

Originally Posted by kevint

Why are we waiting for this to happen still? or does it happen a lot that I just font know?

We are imperfect for one thing and if there is a God there is also another spirit working against him. As noted by Paul in Ephesians chapter 6;

10Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places .

13Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one . 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

I agree with Jimmy, either it's true for everyone or no one. And if you are going to pick and choose what you want to believe out of the New Testament, there's no way to find common ground. Backing up all those assertions about Paul's "lies" with things found in the NT would be interesting. James offered Paul the "right hand of fellowship" (along with Peter and John Gal. 2:9). Additionally Luke (who wrote Luke and Acts traveled extensively with Paul and recorded the "Acts of the Apostles" extensively. Now, does he become discredited as well? He wrote one of the only "4 books with the words of Jesus" (paraphrasing you here), but you said the rest of the books were just Paul's opinions (and you completely disregarded the fact that there are several other authors of NT epistles).