Thread: Video_ Buy, Buy, American Pie

You left a part out here Jimmy:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

the entrepreneurs were beginning to stab the American worker in the back, while the labor unions and frivolous employee lawsuits were stabbing the American entreprenuer in the face...

Originally Posted by joesixpack

That's a pretty big generalization. THe fact is that "americans" are largely against most free trade agreements because most americans know that it's fundamentally unfair. Workers in places like China, Honduras, and Viet Nam deserve the same wages, environmental protections, and workplace safety that we have here in the US and in Europe. The truth is that these trade barriers have been broken down not by american voters, but by wealthy special interest lobbies.

Having said that, I think the video is sorta' funny too.

But other countries seem to manage.
The big difference between e.g Belgium and the US is that we know we can't make everything. So we focus on the things we can do well enough to make a profit, and we forget about the rest, like making cars.

The US otoh has this notion that it has to be 'American' to be worthy which is of course not true. And by buying American 'just because' you are really undermining your own economy. You should only buy American if the quality is as good and you are willing to pay the difference to support America. You should never buy inferior products to support America because then you will support an economy that can't sell its products on a global market, due to being expensive AND crappy.

Case in point is detroit: they can whine about 'Jap-crap' all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that Japanese cars for the average family are not only better but also much cheaper in purchase and cheaper in use than American cars. Detroit should have never gotten a bailout. If the car industry can't survive because it makes gas guzzling overpriced cars of low quality with soggy suspensions, then it should die instead iof being kept alive out of misplaced patriotism which is poisoning your economy.

It's alot more complicated than that Bruno. A country like China has the capability to produce more high and low tech workers than any country maybe save India and maybe 40 years down the road thay will put us all in the dust. The U.S is still graduating a bumper crop of High School dropouts each year and bleeding good paying jobs overseas.

Yes that is true. But that is going to happen anyway because China has the drive and the focus to get there while the US is still coing to grips with the idea that it has no guarantees at being the global super power.

That is why imo the US should take a look at its economy and see where it is viable (e.g. Silicon Valley) and where it isn't (e.g Detroit) and take it from there. The US has lost its crown / will do so in the near future. But that doesn't mean it has to become a third world country. Applying to patriotism and using subsidizing to make people buy native but inferior products is only making the problem worse.

I buy Belgian where the quality is good and if that costs a bit more I don't mind. Belgian beer, chocolate (though that is really dirt cheap here) etc are what I buy. But when the product is not to my standards it can go rot for all I care.

FWIW, I see many older Detroit made automobiles still chugging along while their Japanese counterparts have long been in the junkyard. AFAIC it is a myth that USA cars are inferior. Buying American helps me help a USA worker. If you can find anything still made here. I haven't had a Chinese worker come in for a tattoo lately.

Off topic but back until the late seventies/early eighties we had a lot of American made cars here as it was sort of a sure choice of a good quality. I still curse the day i sold my '69 Dodge Monaco.

Then times changed and Japanese and Europeans learned to make affordable yet durable cars while USA seemed to forget it. I still had few US cars made in early eighties but they were far from what they used to be.
Nowadays seeing US made car younger than say 15-20 years is very rare.
It is an example how people voted with their wallets.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

FWIW, I see many older Detroit made automobiles still chugging along while their Japanese counterparts have long been in the junkyard.

Older cars, yes. Modern cars, not so much.
As for gas mileage... Detroit would not survive European gas prices.

Originally Posted by Bruno

But other countries seem to manage.
The big difference between e.g Belgium and the US is that we know we can't make everything. So we focus on the things we can do well enough to make a profit, and we forget about the rest, like making cars.

The US otoh has this notion that it has to be 'American' to be worthy which is of course not true. And by buying American 'just because' you are really undermining your own economy. You should only buy American if the quality is as good and you are willing to pay the difference to support America. You should never buy inferior products to support America because then you will support an economy that can't sell its products on a global market, due to being expensive AND crappy.

Case in point is detroit: they can whine about 'Jap-crap' all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that Japanese cars for the average family are not only better but also much cheaper in purchase and cheaper in use than American cars. Detroit should have never gotten a bailout. If the car industry can't survive because it makes gas guzzling overpriced cars of low quality with soggy suspensions, then it should die instead iof being kept alive out of misplaced patriotism which is poisoning your economy.

I don't have time to pake a point-by-point rebuttal of this right now (I have an appointment to keep), but I have to take issue with a couple of assertions you make.

First, most countries don't "manage" any better than the US without trade barriers. In fact, I'll bet you can't find another country on earth with more open borders to trade (or immigration, for that matter).

The second point I want to make clear is that Japan has never made a better car than the US. The reality is that Japan has a three tier QA system (their highest quality being set aside for export to the US, Canada, and Europe) and laws that force Japanese consumers to essentially subsidize Japanese auto production so that Japan could dump cars into the most lucrative export markets. Furthermore, Japan has some of the highest import restrictions in the world. Japan has NEVER been competing fairly in any of the industries that they're famous for.

I have very few complaints about the quality of goods imported to the US. My biggest concern is the way that workers from these other countries are treated. So much fuss was made about the lead found in Chinese made toys a year or so back. People were all in an uproar over the fact that their kids might have been exposed to trace ammounts of it. But I think the real issue is, what about the kids that were working in that chinese factory, and how much lead were THEY exposed to? How much lead was dumped into the nearby rivers and into the soil around that factory? Here in the US and I'm sure in Belgium there are laws to protect people from that sort of danger. Why can't we demand the same level of accountability from people who import into our country?

I can and will go on about this for a few pages later, right now I have to go see an IRS agent

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I can and will go on about this for a few pages later, right now I have to go see an IRS agent

Good luck. That's never a joyous event.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I have very few complaints about the quality of goods imported to the US. My biggest concern is the way that workers from these other countries are treated. So much fuss was made about the lead found in Chinese made toys a year or so back. People were all in an uproar over the fact that their kids might have been exposed to trace ammounts of it. But I think the real issue is, what about the kids that were working in that chinese factory, and how much lead were THEY exposed to? How much lead was dumped into the nearby rivers and into the soil around that factory? Here in the US and I'm sure in Belgium there are laws to protect people from that sort of danger. Why can't we demand the same level of accountability from people who import into our country?
(

There are authorities to check and control these foreign factories. Importing such goods is forbidden. It happens, but as soon these authorities find something wrong with these factories, importing gets difficult.
This is not the problem. I think that Chinese working man should get paid fairly too and not to risk his life while making dog food for our dogs or toys for our children.
As long as people in the western democracies demand cheaper items, companies keep producing them where they can make it cheapest. It goes all down to you and me my friend.