Thread: Gallup Poll: 4 in 10 believe man created by God 10,000 years ago

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

So now there are different kinds of faith. Teach me oh great master.

I've only claimed to far what faith is exactly and that untill someone acquires proof on his own (on any subject) that faith is just as valid as anyone else's.

But it seems you know about different kinds of faith. I'd like to know what kinds there are, what they're called and hear some examples on what that means.

Well i'm no great master by any means but if i may explain how i see the difference between 'faith' and 'faith', or call it 'belief'. As said, in my language there are different words for these, so i try to tell what is a difference.

Now you know how the material world works. It works based on the laws of physics. With little knowledge in chemistry, physics and mathematics you can go far. At simpliest i can say that 2+2=4. I know it is true; i doesn't have anything to with faith. Now we can make it complicated and i still know it is true. Without faith. Even i hadn't calculated most complex theories myself, i know that they can be recalculated at any time. This how the world goes on. If the world wouldn't work by the laws of nature, or laws of physics, it wouldn't work at all. However i must admit that i've worked with engines and motors with such poor condition that little help from any God would have been great
Science is universal. The world works the same way everywhere, it has nothing to do what people believe. Sun shines for pagans too.

Now the second faith. I'm no religious person at all, but i can easily imagine such thing as higher spirit, supernatural or God (or Aesir and Vanir in case of my wife). Now if somebody tells me there is a God, can such claim be repeated and verified in some neutral enviroment in a way that there will be no way for anyone to deny any more? Is it 2+2=4 or is it just someones personal faith without any scientific proof? I say the latter. I'm not saying there is or is not God(s) of any kind but you cannot make an idiot proof claim in the terms of science. You cannot ever proof to say fundamentalist Muslim why your God is more true than his and vice versa. You both only believe and have faith on what is yours and that is it. Can you even take some word from others that there is a God and just rely on that or is personal experience necessary?

Back to my original claim: faith on any higher spirits and science are wrestling on a different arenas. Sometimes they agree and in a case of the OP they disagree. In a scientific terms claiming that the world is 10000 old is an equation that is untrue and false. To believe it is ok but to teach such thing as a science is dangerous.

Lastly i'm not arrogant and try nor am not even ever capable of changing your mind or telling you are wrong. I think that this is just gentlemanlike conversation with just exchanging of opinions.

Originally Posted by Sailor

Well i'm no great master by any means but if i may explain how i see the difference between 'faith' and 'faith', or call it 'belief'. As said, in my language there are different words for these, so i try to tell what is a difference.

Lastly i'm not arrogant and try nor am not even ever capable of changing your mind or telling you are wrong. I think that this is just gentlemanlike conversation with just exchanging of opinions.

No bad intention taken.

This is exactly what I'm saying though. In English there's two different words for it as well:

Faith
Belief

And most people mix the two up and lump them as if they're the same. My interpretation of faith seems to be a little different from yours since my version of the meaning includes the intention to act on beliefs.

So in my interpretation:

Belief -> Faith -> Action

I realise that this is more of a philosophical matter than a standard scientific one (as someone before me already pointed out). But I don't think the idea faith has to do with religion or proof. It has to do with the honest intention to act on ones beliefs. (whether they be scientific, philosphical, religious doesn't matter to the meaning of the word.)

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

I realise that this is more of a philosophical matter than a standard scientific one (as someone before me already pointed out). But I don't think the idea faith has to do with religion or proof. It has to do with the honest intention to act on ones beliefs. (whether they be scientific, philosphical, religious doesn't matter to the meaning of the word.)

Agreed What we are arguing is just about words.