Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism
Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle...
Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism
Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle...
So much money spent on public education, and this is what we get? Sad.
Absolutely astonishing. The programmer for the company I work for is a smart guy in some respects but he believes everything started 6,000 years ago. According to him all scientists are wrong, all astronomers, all archeologists, all anthropologists, historians, chemists, physicists, all of them are dead wrong because they don't follow the literal scriptures. And don't even get him started on plate tectonics!
Nothing wrong with the belief in a Supreme Being, they're living a life that they feel is fulfilling. Why not live and let live?Quote:
Originally Posted by matt321
...or nephew!Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjeff2
And the worlds flat and when are you guys gonna believe it? That round thing is a giant hoax like the trip to the moon years ago.
that's not the end of the story though - the graph seems to indicate an evolution in the public opinion. Give it few hundred thousand years and may be we'll know if being 'a Christian nation' is beneficial to survival
Attachment 54093
The one thing that I've never been able to understand is if the laws of nature are dictated by God, and adaptation and evolution are the way that nature works, then why can't these processes be attributed to the hand of God. I'm not necessarily the religious type, but I believe in God, and don't understand why science can't help us better understand him-- the same way we use it to gain knowledge of other things.
Well, sure, that MIGHT happen. That is, if you believe in all that "evolution" hooey!Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Yours is what some would call the "blended" version. But what kinda gets my goat is the part about so many folks believing human beings were created only about 10,000 years ago. Ain't nothing in science that supports that idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by chay2K
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjeff2
Shouldn't that be great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandson?
Of course, in reality, the best description is that you are distant cousins. Man did not descend from the ape, nor vice versa, but instead both descended from a common ancestor...
and his name may or may not have been Adam.
I believe that's the way the Catholic church puts it. Science is the examination of Gods Laws. We also believe in evolution. As far as when man was created? Only God knows that for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chay2K
You'd be surprised how many people actually believe this. I'm one of them I don't think God flouted natural laws in order to create things. What kind of God won't abide by his own laws?Quote:
Originally Posted by chay2K
They can do what they want and I don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by red96ta
However, these people are also influencing things like what is taught at schools. And in some schools (like in Texas ?) they are now teaching Creationism as 'science' alongside evolution. As a result, they are spreading their stupidity.
I'm totally with Bruno here.
I've always thought that religion is rather like having a gun. Its fine to have one and its fine to be proud of it, but dont wave it around in public and dont stick it in other peoples faces.
I have no problem with what people believe but once it starts adversely impacting me and mine, thats where I draw the line.
When someone believes in the higher spirit(s), whatever that might be, it is called a religion. I'm ok with that. Whatever they belief, there is no need to prove it is a scientific fact. If it makes them life better, then they should be happy and proud with it.
Now when this belief is taught as science, or imposed to those who believe in different religious beliefs, there is a risk that it might get, eh, badly wrong.
Science and religious beliefs cannot be compared. They both talk about whole different things.
Bible is a nice book, and lot of good moral there.
This 40% sadly shows that in front of a human stupidity and ignorance even higher spirits, whatever it is called, are helpless.
Since the bible is a book that comes from an oral tradition that was handed down over the centuries and in the earlier versions copied by hand, by scribes one page at a time, there are variables in what these surviving manuscripts tell us. The same can be said for the holy books of all other religions/belief systems.
These belief systems are, in many cases, using allegory to illustrate their point and weren't meant to be taken literally. We Homo sapiens, generation after generation, seem to think that we know what the truth really is on any side of any issue. The longer I live the more I am convinced that "we" don't know very much at all.
Big bang ? Global warming ? God ? All I know for sure is if any of these religious systems, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Islam or Hinduism are true, than they are either true or they are not. If one of them is true, it is true for everyone, or if not, it is not true for anyone.
I would hesitate to refer to someone who believes in God, whatever their belief system, as "stupid". They may very well be right and no one really will know until death reveals the truth one way or the other.
It would be interesting to see if the OP had some thoughts on wet shaving with straight razors once in awhile rather than thread after thread on "hot button" issues that seem to be calculated to generate controversy and divisiveness.
This comment reminded me a Rowan Atkinson's bit entitled "Welcome to Hell."Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
YouTube - rowan atkinson - hell
This could be my favorite post in my entire time here :beer1:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on how those who don't believe in Creationism are less stupid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Ever the optimist :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I'm surprised that it is as low as 40%. You don't have to have a higher education to see that the world has a design.
It's kind of weird that we can look at anything at all in this world that has a design and will attribute it to a designer but when it comes to the most complicated designs of all like the human brain we somehow have fooled ourselves in to thinking that it could have come about by accident.
That's like if we went to Mars and found Mount Rushmore and started arguing on how long it took for wind errosion to make such a formation.
Ah yes, but sir, by the use of my faculties I've determined that you are arguing that humans are NOT the most intelligent beings in the universe. Tsk, tsk, I'll be a monkey's uncle.Quote:
Originally Posted by volleykinginnc
Chris L
Actually, I'm arguing that it has nothing to do with intelligence. My 2 year old can distinguish whether a bench or a rock was made by a person.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL
It's really very simple, no science, no logic, no thinking really. If you believe you accept what the book says literally and to the tee and you don't question it and your quest is to do whatever it takes to make everyone like you no matter the means.
The Bible never was or IS a book of science. It does not describe methods or systems very clearly.
The person in Genesis writing about the creation was (most likely) Moses, who...let's face it...wasn't there at the time. He'd seen the creation of the world (most likely in a vision or such) and in a few simple verses describes what he'd seen.
That's like describing an hour and a half football match as: "First one team had the ball and was doing well, then the other team got the ball....and won"
It's not a description of the plays/strategy they used, the players that were in the game or anything like that.
There's a LOT of gaps in Moses descriptions. He mostly describes who did it....and that it happened (and a little about the order of creation). Nothing more. Not the how which is what science tries to explain.
The Bible isn't enough to explain creation. It never claimed to be either. It focuses on other (more important) stuff like how to make the best out of your life.
Science is important as well. Just not for the same things that the Bible focuses on.
We have science. Science has a lot of proof that the earth is older than 10000 years. Science also has convincing evidence that evolution is a real and verifiable mechanism that change species over time, and which can be used to explain the fossil records and other findings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaja
Therefore there are very good reasons that men and apes alike had a common ancestor which itself evolved from even more primitive species, all the way down cellular life, whereever that came from. I don't even see that as conflicting with a religious belief or with the idea that the biblical creation myth is a suitable parable, written down in a time when noone had any understanding of biology, physics, etc...
What I do think is stupid is believing, against the vast collection of evidence and sound theories, that a supreme deity snapped his fingers, and lo and behold, in a span of 7 days we had the earth, and we appeared in the form that we now have. Science may not be perfect. Aye. And it cannot explain everything. Aye. But on the whole, there are enough reasons to believe that a) humans as they exist now evolved from the cavemen, which evolved from other species, and b) the earth and the universe are older than 10000 years.
Even if we disagree on the previous paragraphs, even the you should agree that teaching creationism in science class is really stupid, since creationism requires the complete abandonment of the entire scientific process and all the evidence on which it is based.
Note that NOWHERE am I saying that the bible is a worthless document, or God doesn't exist, or that I don't believe in god, or anything of that nature. I just say that using the bible as a scientific factbook is silly.
+1. This is exactly how I see the coexistence between the bible on one hand and science on the other. I see the bible as an (incomplete) set of documents that can be used for inspiration and for transferring ideas and beliefs. I don't see it as a book of scientific facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
Otoh, there is a very simple set of mathematical equation that describe the entire working of electro magnetism, gravity and quantum physics. When I was still majoring in engineering, I could write them on the back of a napkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by volleykinginnc
Out of these equations, there are many solutions where you can set up pseudo random input, and end up with perfectly symmetrical output, like snow flake crystals, galaxy spiral arms and the rings of saturn.
On the biological front, we have DNA, and evolution which can explain why we end up with eyes. Simulations have shown that you can get from a light sensitive surface to a fully functioning eye in about 600 generations.
The mechanisms are there to create beaty from chaos. Imo, if you want to look for a creator, then marvel at the beautiful simplicity of the laws of nature that govern such a magnificent world, and consider them the primary work of the creator. This is pretty much how I consider them.
I don't, for a second, believe that God had to make an effort for each and every single thing, deciding upon cerebral hemisphere structure, and cornea size while ALSO making sure he wasn't violating the laws of physics. True genius would be to set up the principles and then letting the entire thing take care of its own, and not having to manually structure everything.
Amen brother.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I've mentioned it before, politics and religion are two areas best left alone if one wants to avoid the possibility of causing offence.I'm probably as guilty as the next man in this respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
This kind of forum has a very wide and largely anonymous readership. Perhaps some subjects are better left for discussion amongst those who know each other well and are making eye contact.
I think it's stupid to assert that a "God" who is powerful enough to establish all the laws of nature and be responsible for any of this could be assumed to not be powerful enough to "snap his fingers" (so to speak) and create it all within a week (with a built in day of rest, no less).
I think it is stupid to assume that he (or she) couldn't do so in a way that makes it appear as if the world and universe are billions of years old.
More importantly, I think it's stupid to insult others when none of us really have any way of knowing.
PS. My repeated use of stupid was my sarcastic way of saying that people who think they "know" anything definitively about the origins of our universe should be more respectful of others who don't agree :)
Even believers will not alwys agree on how accurate the Bible is. Two common terms many denominations use to describe the authroity of the Bible is "inerrant" and "infallable". Most denominations will declare both, despite what their members actually believe. "Inerrant" when speaking of the Bible means just that, without error...everything, every word, every event, every concept. "Infallable" when speaking of the Bible usually means correct in terms of the spiritual message contained, not all the details of history and physical events.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
To me, infallable speaks to what LX has described in Genesis...an overview of the events but not a blow by blow description.
Tony
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondesi
That is why i never would insult someone for what he believes. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or even native on his home jungle.
It all goes different different when someone starts to act by his/her religious beliefs, specially when it affects the lives of other people too. I have no religion so i can't say that any such act might in some cases, like in this OP, violate my beliefs but rather my moral codes. Seeing something teached as an absolute truth when it is rather just a belief is something i wouldn't want to call good thing to do.
I have no issues with Creationists. I do not really care what they believe. There are several other examples in history and present when people who behave by what they think their God really says cause harm -more or less- to others and can be seen as morally wrong.
To me religions is how to deal with the one you think -if any- created this all. How to live your life in harmony with what you believe. Knowing it is the best for you. Once someone says it is best for the rest of us as well, then i little disagree.
I couldn't disagree more. Does any religious text mention that a divine being manipulated the physical makeup of the world and universe so as to fool humans into believe it was older than it really is?Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondesi
This is right out of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. We should just replace text books with Douglas Adams and call it law. Where's Slartibartfast when you need him?!
At least you didn't call me stupid ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
But, I think you missed the point which is we do not "know" despite our best efforts
What we know as the scriptures were orally handed down before finally being transcribed within the limits of the scientific knowledge of the time. That the earth was flat and was the center of the universe, with the sun revolving around it was, if I understand correctly, the common consensus. So those who transmitted the information did so within the limitations of their knowledge at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
I think that rejecting the message because of this is "throwing the baby out with the bath water." As Tony said above, the spiritual message of the text is what we who believe accept. Paul the apostle said,"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made."
I can get with that when I go outside and look beyond the concrete to the natural world. Some people choose to believe that this world is a coincidence of swamp gas and micro organisms converging but I am not one of them. YMMV. :)
I agreed with your third point. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondesi
We don't know exactly how everything started, but we can prove certain theories wrong. The world wasn't created 10k years ago as far as I'm concerned and the deus ex machina explanation is as silly to me as saying that the world was created the day I was born. Anything that appears to have happened before 1976 is only that way because it's what the divine being wanted us to believe.
Fair enough. Silly to you? Certainly. However, it still all boils down to what you believe. Both sides of this believes something, and I find it as silly to think something came from nothing and systems as complex as we witness were the result of some grand coincidence as I do to think a creator did it...Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
But at least we aren't being disrespectful to each other.
