Thread: Fired before Retired

Originally Posted by HNSB

I'm not sure if that is a reference to my post or not; If it was:
I don't expect a company to have the best interests of the employees at heart. I expect the company to have their own best interests at heart, which includes keeping the best employees and paying them what they are worth.

I was one of those "valued" employees until they move all manufacturing to the far east.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

People are just a disposable resource and when their continued existence doesn't serve they are eliminated.

That's why I hate the words "Human Resources Manager". They used to be called "Personnell Manager" It just shows what they think of their workers.

I think we perpetuate the game by clinging to our party allegiances. The same elites have bought and sold both sides. Neither side upholds rule of law. When this is the case, does it matter which side is at the wheel?

It is a pity that American workers don't know the history of the struggles of labor in the twentieth century. Many of them think that their 8 hour day and 40 hour week are just 'normal'. That guys died in the streets so we could have the working conditions we used to enjoy is unknown today. Read about 'the battle of the overpass' and other examples of the fight for a better life our fore fathers bled for.

Now union membership is down to a minuscule percentage and the right wing has succeeded in creating a public perception that unions are the problem rather than the solution. They have been union busting since day one and continue to do so. See this here. Nowadays the outsourcing of jobs in one segment of the market after another shows the callous disregard the entrepreneurs have for workers. Going back to the sweat shops, child labor abuses of the nineteenth century and paying slave wages while charging the same prices they would had the goods been USA made.

Yes, Jimmy. And it doesn't scratch the surface. You're totally right. Yet there's no clean hand - anywhere. 'Labor succeeded in grabbing power before. 'Didn't go well there either. They have their own share of evil history. Keeps reminding me how frail a specie we are.

You're right Jimmy, I wasn't around for any of that.

Here's my experience: In the past I have been a member of the USWA and of the SEIU.
In both cases all the unions did for me was take money out of my paycheck, and send me junk mail telling me who to vote for.

When I was in the SEIU we had a dispute over health insurance during contract negotiations. The union (who was being paid over half a million dollars/year by our local) came out and said "You can strike if you want, but we can't negotiate anything better. You should all just vote for the contract.
$500k / year, and that's what they came up with...

I have also worked in non-union positions. In every case I have been able to negotiate my own contract to my satisfaction. I don't have people without my interests in mind negotiating what they want while using me as a pawn (which is exactly what I got from the unions).

Also, I rarely work an 8 hour day or a 40 hour week. Typically it's closer to 60 hours a week.
I don't get paid after 40. I am happy with that (I agreed to it, and the compensation that I get), and I'll never go back to working for a union and lose the ability to negotiate for myself.

If you're wondering where I'm coming from on this, it's not because I bought into any propaganda. It's because I have been in unions, and for me they were not a good deal.

Originally Posted by HNSB

If you're wondering where I'm coming from on this, it's not because I bought into any propaganda. It's because I have been in unions, and for me they were not a good deal.

I've only been in one union and it had it's ups and downs. At some points in time, depending on who ran the local, it was like the union depicted in the film "On The Waterfront." Over the 20 years I was a working member I can say the union was a positive influence for the workers they represented. As with all organizations the problem is that people run them and people are imperfect, corruptible, can be out for themselves.

I don't know about any of the white collar unions but I do know that in the construction trades the only reason that the non union element gets decent wages and acceptable working conditions is because of the bar set by the local unions. Even with the union it was no picnic. My first Biz agent used to say,"I can get the job for you but I can't keep it for you." The first contractor I worked iron for used to say,"All I want to see is A-holes and elbows." No rose garden in the union ironworkers. Not in them days anyway.

I'm the local chairman for our union and folks think it's a picnic & whine, bi$%h, and moan. I'd be willing to bet that if it weren't for our union, we would be getting paid literally half of what we are now. I've seen union guys really screw the eyeballs out of the employer...so really it's up to the men. A union is only as strong as the men. A union is only as good as the men in it...

I must say, I've been done over by the unions I've been in, just as often as I've been done over by the companies that I've worked for. I'm not a fan of todays unions, that I feel are a far cry from what they used to be. There are many unions in this country though, and my skill sett puts me in the Miscellaneous Workers Union. One of the most useless unions on the face of the planet. The AWU is a much stronger and more 'old timey' union that will fight hard for a workers rights. It's just that I've never had a first hand experience of that happening. One of my best mates is one of those AWU men who fight for other workers. He hasn't lost a battle yet. I just wish I could have had him as my Union Rep over my working life.
I think most companies only value senior management and don't care so much for the lower ranks (Lower classes), at least all the companies I've worked for haven't. I'm one of those people who started out putting myself wholeheartedly into the companies mindset (towing the company line) that I worked for. One after the other they screwed me and each new company I started with, I fell for the company spiel of valuing their staff better than other mobs. I stopped believing that about 20 years ago. I'm what is called a 'Cynic' these days. I don't tend to swallow the bull-dust people try to feed me. A company is wholly and solely here to make a profit. the bigger the profit the better. The last company I worked for decided that the best way to make that profit was to cut 'Non-Essential' staff members. This meant that they got rid of anyone willing to stand up for their rights, and only kept anyone who was either kissing the right persons arse or those who were too scared to say No when asked to work back without pay. My area started off with 16 staff, was dwindled down to 8, then 6 and now have 3. The work is dealt with by getting people from outside areas to help when they fall behind. The help is required on a daily basis. I'm so glad I was one who was fired, as I was then able to take them up on unfair dismissal and win. Many others who should have followed that course of action didn't. I had to fight the Union just to get them to take up my case though, as they were (are) in the pockets of the company.


Mick

Originally Posted by HNSB

Employers value employees that are valuable.

In an ideal world .... maybe, but the next guy in the interview queue may work just as hard so it's only a temporary impasse to let staff go IMHO.