Thread: hey, firestart, let's fight!

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

X, there are a couple of bars in Edmonton that are world famous for it. Which brings me to a funny story. I was in Sudbury, working on my 3rd pitcher after already doing some heavy preemptive drinking (hey I was 19 and the bar/club scene was still new to me) when a guy came up to me out of the blue and tried to pick a fight. I told him "dude, I don't feel like fighting; came here to drink. maybe another time." He looked at me, paused, said "ok" and went to look for someone else lol.

Somehow, that sounds like a scene from "My Cousin Vinny". Joe Pesci goes to collect $200 that his g/f won playing pool, and the guy offers to kick his ass! Pesci thinks it over..."$200, or my ass kicked. I could really use a good ass kicking. Naw, I'll take the $200!"

RT

In this case, the guy was just looking for a bit of a friendly sporting challenge, and it's something you can't get from an unwilling opponent. Since that happened in a mining town in the boonies, I'm sure he eventually found someone to have a scrap and a drink with lol.

That's a pretty cavalier attitude to have about fighting. I've seen way too many people lose teeth, get broken jaws that had to wired shut for 2 months, get facial fractures that require surgery, tear ligaments and tendons also requiring surgery, and get laid up with back injuries.

So, when i fight, it's because i really don't like someone and i want to hurt them. I can't imagine what kind of fight would leave two people in good enough shape to sit down and have a beer afterwards. In fact, i think, out of all the fights i've ever seen, most were serious enough that only one person walked away from it...

Granted, i don't go to bars, so i've never seen a bar fight.

There are fights and then there are fights... Serious injuries are rare in friendly scraps.. Usually a bloody nose, a few bumps and bruises and that's it. They just do it to see who's better. Serious injuries occur when there's real animosity between the two guys and they are really trying to hurt each other.
Yes there is a realistic risk, but it also exists when you go for a friendly sparring match, even if it's only semi-contact. I've actually seen fountains of blood, busted teeth and busted ribs in semi-contact friendly sparring sessions!
With that being said, I only voluntarily fought/tried to pick a fight outside of a ring setting twice in my life, both times in high school and in both cases to prevent even more serious consequences.

Ilija,
I'm not quite sure what you're saying there. A 'friendly scrap' is not a fight, it's a sparring match. "to find out who's better". And that's fine and all, except that it is not a fight. And I doubt that a bar fight is as safe as a semi-contact sparring match, but that's a different story.

When there is a fight, there IS animosity between the people, so much indeed that they decide to risk their health and life to settle this.

I don't go to bars and I never fight (except for sparring), so I'm curious to know what the rules of engagement for these so called friendly scraps are. How do you know that the other guy has the same friendly attitude as you do? How do you know he will have the same friendly attitude in the middle or afterwards? How do you know that once he gets a 'bloody nose', he will not get upset and smash a beer bottle into your face?
You remember that dude a few years back who had a tiny argument with some other guy in a restaurant here in TO, and then on his way out he was attacked and beaten (stabbed ?) to death? was that a 'friendly scrap' at the beginning?

Sorry, I don't mean to attack you, Ilija, but this casual attitude towards fighting is very dangerous and can lead to catastrophic results if people live by it. Life is not a movie, nor is it the UFC. Once those fist are flying, expect to be beaten up... not just tagged, beaten up. and once you're down, expect to be kicked in the face ... repeatedly. So better know what a fight really is and how much risk is involved so you know if it's worth it.

Oh yeah, one more thing. A buddy of mine is a bouncer, and I'm pretty sure that if you started a fight in his joint, no matter how friendly, he would kick both your assess out (at different times and different exits), so sorry, no sharing a drink afterwards. And getting into another bar with a bloody nose? Don't think so, at least not in at least semi-civilized places.

Redwoood

well, in firestart's defense, i think you can engage someone under certain circumstances without too much risk. just the other night my friends and i cleared his living room out and had some fun grappling. there were no rules, but we knew how to conduct ourselves. i'm thinking you can probably read a lot of a person's intentions by how they confront you (if you don't already know them). i just wouldn't want to chance it, because the thing that scares me about even the most light scraps is the potential for a wild punch that could leave someone with serious injuries that require surgery, which i've seen. beyond that, though, even if i knew that wouldn't happen, i'd still be scared of something as stupid as losing teeth. i happen to be one of those three or four americans who can't afford health or dental insurance.

i'm pretty sure we're all just arguing about what exactly qualifies as a fight and how to properly define the word. i agree with redwood about that: i would reserve the use of the word fight for situations where there is real animosity involved.

also, i don't go to bars, but i've been to a few, and most of them had no bouncers at all.

As I mentioned before, I don't start fights period. There's too much at risk for my tastes and in any case I really am a pacifist.
The bottom line is that I accept the animal side of human nature. We all try to display our masculinity in some ways. Like razors. Now, if two guys want to prove who's the bigger man by beating the living crap out of each other, it's their problem. However, when that is the motive, serious injuries are less likely than when the motive is that one guy slept with the other guy's girlfriend.
In a "friendly scrap" the other guy won't purposely try to bust your nose, bust out your teeth or kick the living crap out of you when you're down. Actually chances are that he'd say something like "i've had enough, let's go for a drink."
I can understand a lot of stuff that I don't personally engage in. I like having sex, so I understand promiscuous people even though I engage exclusively in monogamous relationships. I like fighting in formal settings (mostly non-full contact sparring matches) and when I walk into the dojo/dojang/gym/whatever I always look to spar with a more athletic advanced member. It's a physical challenge, filled with adrenaline. That is why I understand the motivation for the two guys who want to scrap it out behind the bar.
In all honesty, I would rather see those two guys fighting behind a bar than drag-racing through a school zone. As long as they are just hurting each other and not any other people, it's their recreation -- their problem.

Finally, I'd like to make a final disclaimer:
I don't fight in a street setting for the fun of it. I've only fought when attacked and had no way to get out of it. Even those are rare as I haven't had to do it in almost 9 years. I think it is in part because I try to understand the other guy and his motivations for it.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

...I engage exclusively in monogamous relationships...

...simultaneously?

Ok, gents, good to see that we basically have the same views. But I really wanted to clear up the terminology.

There's fighting and there's playing. But if you are horsing around with your buddys, don't call that a 'fight' because this is not.
And trying to pick 'friendly' fights with strangers in a bar is about as dumb as it sounds.

Having said that, I gotta go and shave now

Redwoood

I never said it's smart or laudable. Just that I understand why they'd do it. Actually my worst fighting injury came from a friendly wrestling match with a buddy. He had 50% of my body weight on me, but I still beat him most of the time. On one occasion he got the better of me and threw me over his head. I ended up going head-first into a concrete driveway. The top of my head required some stitches.
Cyrano: Actually I really am a one woman man. IMO, one woman is more than enough trouble without complicating the issues by adding another one or three into the mix. lol