Thread: Anti - anti-smoking rant

Here in VA bars can still have a smoking area it just has to have its own ventilation system and there are rules regarding entry ways and the like.
Not every establishment can affors this but it is an option.
One of my favorite places with this is in Fredericksburg. There is an entry way with two doors inside of it. One for smoking. One for not smoking. The not smoking side has a decent sized bar and 5-10 tables. The smoking section has a 30ish foot bar, a lot of tables, a dance floor, and billiards tables.
Both sides, however, serve the same amazing chili.

At 62 and up until 10 years ago a non filter Camel smoker for 36 years, pipes for 20 and still at it ..... I have come to respect the right of non-smokers to enjoy clean air. As one of them once exclaimed to me ..."People are breathing."

OTOH, I grew up in a household where everyone smoked. Parents, grandparents and sibling. I began at age 14. I don't believe in second hand smoke being "all of that" because if it was I'd be dead long ago.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

At 62 and up until 10 years ago a non filter Camel smoker for 36 years, pipes for 20 and still at it ..... I have come to respect the right of non-smokers to enjoy clean air. As one of them once exclaimed to me ..."People are breathing."

OTOH, I grew up in a household where everyone smoked. Parents, grandparents and sibling. I began at age 14. I don't believe in second hand smoke being "all of that" because if it was I'd be dead long ago.

It's all about genes Jimmy. My dad worked his entire life as a painter and sprayer and was exposed to chemicals that now have big cancer warning signs on them. In those days if you got oil based paint on you the only way to clean it off was with benzene or turpentine and my dad practically bathed in the stuff. He always reeked of it. He should have died from cancer a long time ago. The fact is he's 96 and doin just fine. My point is if you have good genes you can smoke 2 packs a day and drink a fifth of whiskey every day and nothing will kill you. The problem is most folks don't have genes like that and though people always point to folks like my dad to tell themselves nothing bad will happen to them the fact is they forget about all the people who die because of their habits or vocations. I guess that's human nature.

For most of us with average genes these lifestyle factors really do affect you and of course if you have bad genes even if you seal yourself in a sealed room all your life you'll probably still die from some cancer or other disease.

As far as the argument that smokers have their rights the answer to that is your rights end when they impact on others in a negative fashion.

Originally Posted by bharner

The not smoking side has a decent sized bar and 5-10 tables. The smoking section has a 30ish foot bar, a lot of tables, a dance floor, and billiards tables.
.

Proof that smokers are better people, they have more fun and are worth the capital expenditure. LOL
BTW I quit not too long ago with the aid of e-cigs, I highly recommend these for those who are having a hard time staying on the wagon.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Proof that smokers are better people, they have more fun and are worth the capital expenditure. LOL
BTW I quit not too long ago with the aid of e-cigs, I highly recommend these for those who are having a hard time staying on the wagon.

I see this a lot. I think there is about a 3 to 1 ratio, smokers outnumbering the non-smokers. I would think all the extra smoke in the room would be an added benefit, you could light up less and still enjoy the smoke from others. On my own I would guess that it would be the other way around, but maybe there is a correlation to bars and smoking. After all, I'm running in the evening.

I really miss pipe smoking though, and the smell of a pipe anywhere in the room is intoxicating.

Virginia happens to be the home to the largest manufacturers of cigarettes, the taxes paid by that company to the state of Virginia are staggering. To me the whole issue boils down to the government telling a business owner how he can run his establishment. There are plenty of regulations that a restaurant or bar owner has to deal with, they certainly don't need this one. If non-smokers don't like that an establishment allows smoking, then go to one that is smoke free. All other things being equal, and non-smokers being in the majority, shouldn't the smoke free establishment be making more money than the smoking establishment? This used to be the land of the free, unfortunately that changed long ago. The loan from the french to finance the Revolutionary War was backed by tobacco. If not for tobacco we would still be an English colony.

Originally Posted by bharner

Here in VA bars can still have a smoking area it just has to have its own ventilation system and there are rules regarding entry ways and the like.
Not every establishment can affors this but it is an option.
One of my favorite places with this is in Fredericksburg. There is an entry way with two doors inside of it. One for smoking. One for not smoking. The not smoking side has a decent sized bar and 5-10 tables. The smoking section has a 30ish foot bar, a lot of tables, a dance floor, and billiards tables.
Both sides, however, serve the same amazing chili.

Originally Posted by whavens

To me the whole issue boils down to the government telling a business owner how he can run his establishment.

Wrong argument. If it is a health issue, there are plenty of grounds for the government to tell you what you can and cannot do. And while the people involved generally don't like it, it is usually for the better.

This is pesky government interference like not allowing people to store toxins in leaky barrels, not allowing companies to burn whatever the hell they want, mandating fire exits in restaurants, demanding foodstuff to come with a list of ingredients, etc.

I can understand smoking bans in restaurants (though I would prefer to see a means by which a business owner could accomodate it's customers - such as a separate enclosed area for smokers, with its own ventilation system)... I have a hard time with the state not allowing smoking in structures specifically designated for that purpose, or not allowing smoking in establishments specifically for that purpose. For instance, there used to be a cigar lounge in a town not far from here - there would have been no reason for a non-smoker to be there.
At best, sweeping bans don't allow for sensible solutions to problems. At the worst they "solve" problems that don't exist at the expense of individual rights.

Originally Posted by HNSB

I can understand smoking bans in restaurants (though I would prefer to see a means by which a business owner could accomodate it's customers - such as a separate enclosed area for smokers, with its own ventilation system

Isn't that allowed? It is over here.
Smoking is also allowed in private clubs, cigar clubs, outdoors, etc. Those are not classified as 'public places' and thus not subject to the same regulations.

No.

This explains the areas that smoking is banned statewide (note that some municipalities have even more strict anti-smoking laws)

Subd. 1a. Indoor area. "Indoor area" means all space between a floor and a ceiling that is
bounded by walls, doorways, or windows, whether open or closed, covering more than 50
percent of the combined surface area of the vertical planes constituting the perimeter of the area.
A wall includes any retractable divider, garage door, or other physical barrier, whether temporary
or permanent. A 0.011 gauge window screen with an 18 by 16 mesh count is not a wall.
Subd. 1b. Place of employment. "Place of employment" means any indoor area at which
two or more individuals perform any type of a service for consideration of payment under any
type of contractual relationship, including, but not limited to, an employment relationship with or
for a private corporation, partnership, individual, or government agency. Place of employment
includes any indoor area where two or more individuals gratuitously perform services for which
individuals are ordinarily paid. A place of employment includes, but is not limited to, public
conveyances, factories, warehouses, offices, retail stores, restaurants, bars, banquet facilities,
theaters, food stores, banks, financial institutions, employee cafeterias, lounges, auditoriums,
gymnasiums, restrooms, elevators, hallways, museums, libraries, bowling establishments,
employee medical facilities, and rooms or areas containing photocopying equipment or other
office equipment used in common. Vehicles used in whole or in part for work purposes are
places of employment during hours of operation if more than one person is present. An area in
which work is performed in a private residence is a place of employment during hours of
operation if:
(1) the homeowner uses the area exclusively and regularly as a principal place of business
and has one or more on-site employees; or
(2) the homeowner uses the area exclusively and regularly as a place to meet or deal with
patients, clients, or customers in the normal course of the homeowner's trade or business.
Subd. 2. Public place. "Public place" means any enclosed, indoor area used by the general
public, including, but not limited to, restaurants; bars; any other food or liquor establishment;
retail stores and other commercial establishments; educational facilities other than public
schools, as defined in section 120A.05, subdivisions 9, 11, subdivision 13; hospitals; nursing
homes; auditoriums; arenas; meeting rooms; and common areas of rental apartment buildings.