Thread: The loss of basic skills in school

Originally Posted by Goggles

I can't think of any good reason why textbooks shouldn't disappear. That's the last kind of book that should be preserved. How many heavy textbooks get printed, hauled around, abused and destroyed while going virtually unused? I just finished an engineering degree and the fraction of a given textbook that's even assigned to be used in a course is tiny, let alone the fraction that students actually look at. On top of that, they go out of date almost yearly so that the publisher can waste another 1000 tons of paper printing (and selling) negligible revisions. The sooner the whole textbook system is virtualized the better, IMHO. Printed textbooks are an incredible waste and inconvenience.

One student's outdated textbook is another publisher's opportunity to make a profit on the new printing.

Computers are very useful and make the recycling of lectures/lecture notes a breeze. There is almost nothing that gets obsolete on a yearly basis, even in higher education. The differences from year to year are mostly in different problem sets, so that the students don't just copy the previous year's solutions.

As far as computers vs. cursive, it seems like a no brainer to me - one is very useful the other not so much. Of course, when the question becomes computers vs. critical thinking the priorities should be the other way around. It's a matter of prioritizing the right things, so it depends on the context. The exact same thing can win or loose depending on what it competes against.

Many years ago I witnessed how my grandfather (a farmer) was amazed that my father (an engineer) doesn't have a pocket knife on him. The exact words were 'What kind of a man are you, not to carry a knife". My father, had absolutely no need to carry a pocket knife at all times, since his job was to design machines for the weapon industry. Though he could tell you in his sleep how to make an opamp from a fistfull of transistors, capacitors and resistors.

Originally Posted by ghostonthehorizon

I just finished reading yet another article about a school getting iPads for its students
...snip...
Am I the only one?

You are not the only one.

Write a letter to your school board and
remind them that the employers in your
area do not work on iPads and that
iPads do not come with quality keyboards.

Make a list of your top 10 university options
and research what computing tools and
training apply.

Having said this an iPad as a replacement
for texts is cool but not a slam dunk. If they
have a cost analysis ask to read it.
Books are expensive, expensive to purchase
expensive to inventory, expensive to revise and
replace. Many electronic books are more
expensive than paper versions. Make sure
they include the cost of an IT department to
maintain them. Make sure that district wide home
networking is available.

Do demand parental tools -- if you kids
have an iPad and you do not, you are hard
put to participate in the experience.

Eh, right concept...wrong arguement...Save a tree, read an IPAD...You can put all the references and texts on 1 IPAD that would fill the congress library...I am all for that.
The problem lies in teaching original thought in school. Now everything is referenced and there is no "original" thought...

(Copy write Wintchase AUG 20011; from SRP (Straight Razor Place); http://straightrazorpalace.com/conve...-school-2.html)

Good to see the harvard system alive and well

Teachers these days (at least in the U.S.) are pretty much relegated to teaching to the test. We don't teach our kids history. We don't teach our kids civics. We don't teach them critical thinking. Most have trouble recording three rational thoughts on paper (without using texting shorthand.) We don't teach them the skills they need at the next level. And heaven forbid there is frank and honest discussion about anything in the academic environment (someone might be offended.) We teach them to pass the state mandated basic skills test. In most cases this means that they can read, write, and do basic math nothing more.

More profoundly disturbing is what the prevailing social environment teaches children. It goes something like this:
1. You are the most important thing in the world
2. By virtue of simply being you are entitled to whatever it takes to make you happy.
3. Life is fair and everyone's outcomes are equal
4. The rest of the world is obliged to make sure that you are entertained, happy and comfortable at any given point in time.
5, Don't bother with considering consequences, there are none. Whatever makes you happy must be good, right?
6. If you're ever sad, uncomfortable, hurt, disappointed or don't get exactly what you want get counseling or a prescription for happy pills.

It's almost laughable that we lament the fact that these people seem unable to function independently in the real world.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

What bothers me as a tertiary educator is the complete lack of anything resembling note-taking skills. Yes, understanding and being able to use technology is important - it always has been and always will be - but just a basic ability to take notes seems to elude 90% of the students I see. And since I lecture maths and stats, there aint no way they can take my notes down on a computer during lectures.

I'm one of those students who LOVES online notes. Not because I can't or don't take my own, I've taken many hundreds of pages of colour-coded notes, don't own and never have owned a laptop, tablet, smartphone, etc. But what I seem to lack is the ability to absorb while I'm writing. I write frantically for 90 minutes and end up with 10-20 pages of stuff I don't remember writing, and I've missed out on all the personal nuances of the lecture that make it easy to understand. Of course, it's lose-lose because if I DON'T write and try to listen instead even my favourite lecturers eventually put me to sleep.

Originally Posted by gugi

Computers are very useful and make the recycling of lectures/lecture notes a breeze. There is almost nothing that gets obsolete on a yearly basis, even in higher education. The differences from year to year are mostly in different problem sets, so that the students don't just copy the previous year's solutions.

I had a professor begin a course by telling us it was exactly what he'd been taught 50 years ago, but the only noticeable (to the students) changes to the science and technical books are a shuffling around of chapter, page and problem numbers so that no one can use a version just a year or two old and be sure of following the appropriate coursework.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

Teachers these days (at least in the U.S.) are pretty much relegated to teaching to the test....

This is probably true in many cases, but not in all. I know plenty of american students with all kinds of backgrounds, from farmers to academics, many of whom went through the standard public education system and they're as smart and educated as they come.

Whenever I've taught students I've always ran contrary to their deep desire that I solve them the exact problems they'll have on the test, in favor of giving them problems that they had no clue how to approach, because they're extremely easy but require actual thinking and demonstration that they've grasped the fundamental concepts. As a result the smart students like me, everybody else hates me.
I always run an experiment though - I give them a problem I've solved for them before, and then grade it on demonstrated understanding, not writing the answer - they perform just as well as on any other problem

That being said americans generally do have this naivete, selfishness, and exceptionalism you itemized, but from what I've seen it's not a result of education, but of the american culture itself, i.e. it is just the way the american society is.
Though the way current politics go, the really smart minority will be getting richer and richer, and the rest will be getting poorer and poorer.

I actually prefer textbooks.
I made my notes on the blank backside of the pages. I used to scribble in the margins or between paragraphs.
I also like to read things without having to glare at a screen.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I also like to read things without having to glare at a screen.

I have 12 volumes of SRP threads and wiki articles on my bookshelf.

The kindle is amazing. I read a month or so ago that amazon is going to start renting textbooks via the kindle store.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I also like to read things without having to glare at a screen.