Thread: The loss of basic skills in school

Originally Posted by ndw76

The only Asian I have taught are Thais. The Thai education system is seriously screwed up. The Thai students do work hard, but most of what they are being taught is crap. Most Thai students will start school at 8am and keep going until 4pm. Then they will go to evening classes until 8pm. Then on Saturday many students will have a three hour English class and maybe an hour or two on other classes.
The sad thing is that the teachers who are paid to teach during the week deliberately do a bad job because they can charge to teach the same stuff after school and on weekends.

I can imagine that the Asian students who are studying in Australia and America study very hard because they can see how hard their parents have had to work. They can easily recognize the value of a good education.

Those students will be the ones who will succeed. Perhaps those students will become the better teachers of the future.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm going to take this thread in a related direction and discuss the issue of why the basics or even our over-all educational system has suffered.

To me it is no circumstance our educational system is in the state it is in. Things happen for a reason. If the powers that be wanted the educational system to be top notch the money would be there the same as it is for our defense budget. I have always maintained the reason things have gone down hill at an ever increasing pace is because the powers that be want it that way. After-all if you were a captain of industry and a super rich dude you want to be able to control the political process and have your people running things in Govt. Would you want a highly educated electorate, people who can analyze facts, consider history make valid conclusions about who to vote for? Maybe you want stupid folks who will believe what they are told be it true or not. Folks who will decide who to vote for on one issue and who can be easily manipulated and directed.

There will always be the privileged who will get the education to do the technical things and be trained to take over the future but for the masses out there...well...

Ahh, I remember some of my sociology from college, what you are describing is "social oppression" which is a way to control a group of people or an entire society by denying goods, services, and economics. It is another way of preying on the weak and ignorant. It is another form of discrimination.

well, I have seen it 2 ways on the textbook issue. My way with the actual books which cost about 250/sem getting the cheapest options that are marked up and torn and My buddy's way with the iPad and spending $75 on his books for the semester and having them in new condition.

not too hard to see which I'd rather do.

Originally Posted by 96firephoenix

well, I have seen it 2 ways on the textbook issue. My way with the actual books which cost about 250/sem getting the cheapest options that are marked up and torn and My buddy's way with the iPad and spending $75 on his books for the semester and having them in new condition.

not too hard to see which I'd rather do.

What is the price of the iPad?

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

This "national swagger", the ideas and principles that made this country great all these years, now seem to have been relegated to punch lines. Pardon me if I just don't get the joke.

Great article on the subject in the Wall Street Journal today: Shelby Steele: Obama and the Burden of Exceptionalism - WSJ.com

4 words: 'No child Left Behind'
And to be honest, I don't think even Bush is to blame. He was just the expression of the mindset at the time.
Americans started their decline, educational wise, when 'feelings' started to become more important than results, everyone needed to be a winner, and science nerds became dorks.

Originally Posted by Bruno

4 words: 'No child Left Behind'
And to be honest, I don't think even Bush is to blame. He was just the expression of the mindset at the time.
Americans started their decline, educational wise, when 'feelings' started to become more important than results, everyone needed to be a winner, and science nerds became dorks.

While I agree with this, the US also has a very different social situation and history than most other countries, especially those of East Asian countries which are very homogeneous. I think this makes it harder to come to a unified approach that is satisfactory to all groups. Instead of making difficult decisions, the US makes more expedient ones to avoid conflict and divisions. Private schools are leaps and bounds ahead of public schools in terms of quality of education, but the private schools don't have the huge social issues that the public ones do. I honestly don't see how any of this can be overcome.

Originally Posted by Bruno

4 words: 'No child Left Behind'
And to be honest, I don't think even Bush is to blame. He was just the expression of the mindset at the time.
Americans started their decline, educational wise, when 'feelings' started to become more important than results, everyone needed to be a winner, and science nerds became dorks.

I agree, American society has spent too much time coddling and spoiling children as well as giving out free passes so noone is "left behind". The children growing up thinking that society owes them something. The children get short changed from free passes because they will not learn from losing a sport competition or even not doing well in school.

In my opinion, losing a game or failing a test is an opportunity for further learning. I tried to teach my son instead of becoming a sore loser to become an analyst and learn why he lost a game. Learn where did he go wrong, what can he do differently to maybe change the outcome of a future competition. Well with a child, it's like talking to a wall, but I tried. When he flunked a test and brought it home for his mother and I sign it, I asked him, "Jack, what do you think went wrong? How can you change the outcome of the next test? What did you do right in preparing for this test?" Trust me, it worked sometimes and it didn't work sometimes.

It is okay to fail or be a loser; it's how you failed or lost. Yeah yeah, you're all thinking, "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose, it's how you played the game," you're right.

Question: Are today's parents teaching their children about accepting responsibilities for their actions? My wife and I did.

I remember when I graduated High School 24 or so years ago and we questioned why we were learning certain things the reply I got was, it is not the material that is important, we are teaching you how to learn. Looking back that makes so much sense and I think many of the problems we face today come back to the parents not the educators.
Parents seem to want to blame everyone else for there kids short coming. Kid fails a test and well obviously the teacher is just not that great and can not connect with my child. The fact that little Johnny showed up high to class 4 days a week and slept does not enter the equation to the parent. I am lucky enough to have 2 daughters who do very well at school. Even though they were both athletes outside of school Gym was always their lowest mark in and around an 85. My wife and I took an interest in our kids though, we tried to provide structure and boundaries around them and their activities. Yes it was made easier as my wife stayed home to raise them. But simple things with kids make a huge difference. Turning the TV off and sitting down at the table for dinner together every night. Engaging them with conversation that challenges them to think and solve problems. Reading to them every night before bed, then reading the same books as them so you can talk about the book and share thoughts and ideas. I have read every Harry Potter book, Hunger Games and countless other crap just because my girls were reading them. It allowed me to talk to them about it and share in helping them develop there own thinking
Both my girls entered the school system at 4 being able to read and write, they are both exceptional communicators and to this day are frequently praised for their ability to speak and converse with diverse groups of people. Yet when my oldest started school there was a parent there with their 4 year old who was still wearing diapers and did not see why this was a problem and thought the teacher could toilette train the child.

No the problem is not the technology it is the parents who rely on it as a baby sitting service and surrogate parent.

Let the children fail and learn from it. Teach them that hard work earns rewards not mediocrity equates to the same benefits as exceptionalism.

Teach them respect for others, even if you do not agree with the other person respect their opinion and their right to it.

I once told my son, "Why reach for the clouds when you can reach for the stars?"

Originally Posted by Glenn24

without these tools people like Stephen Hawking could have never expressed their genius.

Stephen Hawking is a one-off, I'm not sure that there is anyone else like him.