An observation on the unemplyoment rate.

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Originally Posted by gugi

Here's a job opportunity at $70,000/yr starting salary, for those who don't mind getting a bit dirty, and risking their life a bit In Appalachia, New Coal Miners Are Scarce - Businessweek

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I tried to get a job in the mines but didn't pass the initial health screen due to chronic bronchitis.

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Originally Posted by HNSB

I used to believe that too. I can tell you first hand, that at least where I live, that is not the case. There are far less jobs here than people willing to work.
My attitude about a lot of these things has been changed dramatically in the last several months.

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OK see if I can clarify a little bit. I live in a state which relies on immigrant labor to pick some of our crops. That I do not entirely object to. I have a nephew who is now 21 and collecting a state disability because he is ADHD. I have known this child all of his life and love him second only to my own daughters. He is capable of working, strong and bright. However he tends towards the "the world owes me a living" point of view. We have 3 counties north of here with 12% to 13% unemployment and high rates of welfare. Our governor authorized the use of convicts to harvest our apple crop because there were not enough workers to do the work. Illegal immigration crackdown seems to be part of the culprit. Otherwise the apples would have frozen and rotted on the trees. The pay to do the work is actually pretty fair, at least one grower pays $150 per day. It is however hard work and requires a person to travel to earn a wage. I do not support illegal workers, I also do not support people who are capable of working collecting a government paycheck when there is actually work to be done. I have a good friend who was found to be disabled after breaking his neck at work. He did get the repairs done but could not just sit around and could not perform his previous job. He retrained himself and opened a small business and now makes a reasonable wage.

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Why is everyone so angry at business lately? Let's face it - if not for the business being profitable, you wouldn't have a job.

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I am not angry at business at all. If it sounds that way I apologize. I work for a multimillionaire who employes 150 people and make a reasonable wage. I would always like more, but I am not a capable businessman, so I work for one.

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I don't know what your job market is like, but earlier you stated that there weren't enough qualified machinists to go around. Now you're saying that many of them are underpaid. Those statements are in conflict - if there is truly a shortage of qualified people, companies that need them would pay whatever it takes to get them. Look at the boom in North Dakota. Jobs that would be minimum wage here start at $18-$20 out there, because of a severe labor shortage.

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I should have qualified this a bit. Prior to the recession it was VERY difficult to hire a GOOD machinist. After the recession most good machinists are employed in this area. Now on to the difference in wages. This is a little more difficult. There are a number of shops who want 20 years of experience and wish to pay an entry to mid level wage. There are always entry level people willing to work for $12 an hour and that is OK with me. Where we run into the biggest problem is many of our local shops have been burned. How you ask. They hire a man who claims 20 years of journeyman experience and has the card to back it up. They pay the high wage only to find out he can't do the work. Problem is it was all running a single machine in Seattle, and that is the extent of his skill. Yet he claimed to be able to do complex set ups. Another factor is cheap labor from Asia. People are more than happy to buy a product from China (or where ever) at a 50% discount, even if the quality is lacking. People want what they want, and they want it now. Often are unwilling to save up the extra money and wait the extra time to make the purchase. For the record the wages are beginning to climb

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I am confused by this... Could you please define "wealth" in this context?

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Wealth is the abundance of valuable resources or material possessions. Wealth is created and is not a finite resource. It should not be confused with money. I believe money can be viewed as a means of moving wealth from one person to another. A pure barter system is unwieldy at best. Say I make a razor you want from $10 in material, $20 in outside service and 10 hours of my own. You want the razor but only have half a side of beef to trade. My freezer is stocked already. So it works better for you to trade the beef for $750. Now you give me the $750 for a tool which should last a lifetime and I go pay my mortgage. In the end we each gained a valuable resource and we both created wealth. Neither of us had $750 invested, yet in the end both gained $750 worth of material possession.

I strongly urge you to do some research on the creation of wealth. It would be educational to learn which industries create wealth and which industries redistribute wealth. I should say that I am more than happy to redistribute some of my wealth for the services I choose not to do myself, (dentistry for one).

How do i get the multiple quote bubble thing to happen? Most of my answers got wrapped into the quote bubble. OK now it different but still not multiple bubbles.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

Where we run into the biggest problem is many of our local shops have been burned. How you ask. They hire a man who claims 20 years of journeyman experience and has the card to back it up. They pay the high wage only to find out he can't do the work. Problem is it was all running a single machine in Seattle, and that is the extent of his skill. Yet he claimed to be able to do complex set ups.

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This one's easy, it is sheer incompetence on the people running the business and therefore it ought to fail. They are using quality A (job experience) as a proxy for quality B (skill level). If they want certain level of skill and are willing to pay more for that, they should asses that properly. Just assuming both are interchangeable is plain wrong and they are destined to suffer the consequences of that.

Somehow I don't think it's that hard to have the machinist applying for the job perform some sample work on site and voila - you can judge how good he is. At the very least during the interview process one should probe the level of work the prospective employee has done previously. And if it later turns out he was lying, well that's why contracts have probation periods in them.

The bottom line is that assessing the skill of the prospective employee is actual work, so if you do bad job at it you'll get bad results. The cost of rehiring is pretty significant, and smart employers know it (they should know the exact number to within $1000), and don't skimp on the preparation.


It's also interesting to see the attitudes of people who join this hobby. They are somewhat representative of the whole society, so looking at what their priorities are and what choices they make when picking up their equipment is rather telling.

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Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

How do i get the multiple quote bubble thing to happen? Most of my answers got wrapped into the quote bubble. OK now it different but still not multiple bubbles.

Jeff

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each quote starts with

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[ quote]

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and ends with

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[ /quote]

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minus the spaces between [ and /

if you want to be fancy you can do

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[quote=screenname]

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Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

How do i get the multiple quote bubble thing to happen? Most of my answers got wrapped into the quote bubble. OK now it different but still not multiple bubbles.

Jeff

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What Gugi said. You had both your start end end tags for quote with the slash in there. The begin quote needs to not have the slash. The end quote needs it.

Hey thanks