Trayvon Martin (pardon me if this subject is verboten.)

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

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As far as claims that places where folks are armed have lower crimes rates there has never been any statistical correlation indicating that to be the case.

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Actually, some statistics have been kept about more guns = lower crime rates. Gun Ownership Mandatory in Kennesaw, Georgia .

It's general knowledge that rapes, car-jacking, and many other crimes went way down after Indiana became a "shall issue" state for License to Carry Handgun. In particular, right after passage there was a spate of car-jacking deaths (dead perpetrators) by legal concealed and open carriers. It was reported in all the newspapers, and then car-jackings seemed to fall way off. I'll see if I can find the IN statistics on the reduction when I feel like Googling. I read about them years ago, but can't remember the website offhand. The Indiana gunowners website has threads on successful (and some unsuccessful) armed defense quite often.

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I'm just saying having a gun isn't what it seems to be to many people, the universal answer to something bad happening and can in and of itself cause problems.

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Agree; a carrier should learn the state and local laws on use of deadly force, especially on "when" and "how". A gun can cause more problems than it solves for the uninformed or untrained. Everyone's state "gunowners" website, if it exists, might have "stickys" about local defense statutes and the like.

[QUOTE=thebigspendur;969374]( QUOTEC=CW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it.)


QUOTE "Huh? Name me one anti gun group that has even 10% of the political muscle that the NRA has. They pretty much own Congress and get passed any bill they want. The anti gun people mostly make a lot of noise which leads nowhere. I wouldn't be worried about losing any gun issues."



You misunderstood my comment, but it's really not important anyway.

I guess he never heard of the Clinton "Crime Bill". Gun owners certainly lost there.

Obama does a lot under the radar. He has ordered that all military brass be shredded instead of being sold to reloaders.

That brass is being sold to China and will probably be used against us someday.

Must be why I cannot find brass for my BMG:(

I have to wonder what would be going on IF Zimmerman was catching a beating and in fear for his life,and pulled a knife and cut the kids throat and killed him.
would there be as much ruckus? Especially if it was just a pocket knife. As for carrying a gun outside, when I did it for a living (rent collector) I found that I was a much calmer person and walked away from altercations that could have easily gotten out of hand, having the ultimate winner on my hip made me walk away as no matter if I was involved in a clean shoot or not,as Glen mentioned,there was going to be consequences,whether I was right or wrong,and when in my twenties,and unarmed,I was just as likely to start swinging as not because I was young and not going to be charged with weapon possession.just my 2 cents/

You have to be very careful where you get your statistics from. often times if they come from any organization with an interest either pro or against guns the stats are worthless because when you try and verify them you can't. Often times they are based on anecdotal sources or simply made up.

Very True !

I am not Rambo. Let me tell you a little story about why I am such a supporter of CCW and why I carried before it was legal.

27 years ago I was introduced to a gentleman by a childhood friend. Let's just call him SB. Over the period of a year or two SB became my friend. SB was not your average person. He lived with a wife and girlfriend. The girls worked together and all 3 slept in the same waterbed.
SB started having some mental problems and was going to a therapist. He was on medication to calm him down. One day the wife decided that she had enough and moved out. SB went crazy apparently. A week later I got a call from him. He said, "Come and help me, I have shot both the girls". Now my friendship did not extend to attempted murder. My brother-in-law and I cruised by the house a couple of hours later and there were cop cars all over the place. I thought this would be the end of my involvement. Sadly, no. He shot both girls twice. Neither was killed. The girlfriend was just wounded and was out of the hospital in a few days. The wife lost the use of her legs.
The girlfriend called and wanted me to guard her and both mothers while they cleaned out the house. I did this for them. None of us knew when he would get out of jail or what his state of mind was. At his trial he got 10 years for the wife and 10 years probation for the girlfriend. He was out in 3.5 years.

I was shocked to learn at the trial that he claimed he went crazy because I was having an affair with his wife. No truth in it at all. He wrote me a letter from jail asking why I didn't visit him. My wife and I had dumped ALL our friends, got all new ones and changed our lives. We wanted no part of the old one.

When he got out of jail he left a message on my house phone telling me to say hi to my wife for him. We started keeping a gun by the door. I always thought I might run into him somewhere. It was kinda like a dog that turned on you once. You never will completely trust him again. I started carrying a gun against the time we met. In all these years we never have. Carrying a gun got to be a habit especially that it is legal now. I even carry when I fly to other states, carefully checking the gun laws and airline regulations. I feel undressed without one now even with it dragging my pants down and the discomfort. I wear one at work with the consent of my employers. I wear it on service calls.

It is the reason I study politics and pay attention to what politicians do.

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Originally Posted by Crotalus

I am not Rambo. Let me tell you a little story about why I am such a supporter of CCW and why I carried before it was legal.

27 years ago I was introduced to a gentleman by a childhood friend. Let's just call him SB. Over the period of a year or two SB became my friend. SB was not your average person. He lived with a wife and girlfriend. The girls worked together and all 3 slept in the same waterbed.
SB started having some mental problems and was going to a therapist. He was on medication to calm him down. One day the wife decided that she had enough and moved out. SB went crazy apparently. A week later I got a call from him. He said, "Come and help me, I have shot both the girls". Now my friendship did not extend to attempted murder. My brother-in-law and I cruised by the house a couple of hours later and there were cop cars all over the place. I thought this would be the end of my involvement. Sadly, no. He shot both girls twice. Neither was killed. The girlfriend was just wounded and was out of the hospital in a few days. The wife lost the use of her legs.
The girlfriend called and wanted me to guard her and both mothers while they cleaned out the house. I did this for them. None of us knew when he would get out of jail or what his state of mind was. At his trial he got 10 years for the wife and 10 years probation for the girlfriend. He was out in 3.5 years.

I was shocked to learn at the trial that he claimed he went crazy because I was having an affair with his wife. No truth in it at all. He wrote me a letter from jail asking why I didn't visit him. My wife and I had dumped ALL our friends, got all new ones and changed our lives. We wanted no part of the old one.

When he got out of jail he left a message on my house phone telling me to say hi to my wife for him. We started keeping a gun by the door. I always thought I might run into him somewhere. It was kinda like a dog that turned on you once. You never will completely trust him again. I started carrying a gun against the time we met. In all these years we never have. Carrying a gun got to be a habit especially that it is legal now. I even carry when I fly to other states, carefully checking the gun laws and airline regulations. I feel undressed without one now even with it dragging my pants down and the discomfort. I wear one at work with the consent of my employers. I wear it on service calls.

It is the reason I study politics and pay attention to what politicians do.

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man...irving's gotten wild since i lived there ;)

i'm sure everyone has good reasons to carry that do...well, maybe not EVERYONE...but most. i always figured if i was in a situation where i was defending my own life, the guy trying to do harm to me would probably have the drop on me and i would get myself shot reaching for mine...so i figure i have a better chance just trying to disarm him depending on how close he is.

Here's one verifiable source for Kennesaw, GA : Kennesaw Crime Statistics: Georgia (GA) - CityRating.com These stats are much more recent than the earlier article link. The source of actual data on this crime rate report is the FBI Report of Offenses Known to Law Enforcement. If the FBI was going to "cook" some stats, it would probably be in the "anti-gun" direction instead of "pro-gun" (ref: Hijacking The Second Amendment).

Then again, maybe some percentage of the reported incidents were fudged (perhaps by Kennesaw or GA?) in the hope of acquiring some state or federal crime funding.

EDIT: a news report from 2001 with more verifiable info.