Thread: Trayvon Martin (pardon me if this subject is verboten.)

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Sorry, I can't picture this. If someone threatens me with a gun the last thing I am going to do is jump him. This is too much of a stretch.

If your comfy its just a threat, its the BEST gameplan.

If you believe they are actually going to shoot you (not that you could ever know for certain) you are better to jump them. The moment you are past arms reach, you have nothing protecting you, within arms reach, at least you have a chance to control where the gun is pointing. Probably still get killed, but the odds of survival are a bit better than the 3 foot to 30 foot range running away.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Sorry again if this subject is too inflammatory, but I am really blown away by the media's handling of this murder.

It is interesting you call it murder right before saying you don't see it as a black/white issue - oh, I just realized you meant race. I was thinking maybe you meant it is a gray issue

Originally Posted by joesixpack

As is usual, there are the gun grabbers out there who point to this as an illustration of "Stand your ground" laws, and there are the usual suspects trying to make this a black/white issue, but I certainly don't see it that way, and I'm wondering what others think?

I have no idea who these people are or what happened besides that one guy was killed. So to me, conclusions can only be jumped to and are probably trivial anyway, even if they are irrelevant and entertaining at the same time

This story is way over-hyped

The tim tebow of manslaughter?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

This story is way over-hyped

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Think about this scenario. You wife is at the mall by herself and it's night and dark and as she is leaving the mall to walk to her car she notices a big mean looking dude following her maybe 20 feet away. As she walks he's still there and getting closer. 15 feet away and getting closer, 10 feet and getting closer and there ain't even that many cars parked where's she out now. he suddenly breaks into a run and she panics and pulls out a gun and shoots him dead. No witnesses and she says she feared for her life cause he was menacing her. It turns out the dude was parked next to her. Think she'd have a problem in a state like Florida? I know of cases in my state where women have used OC spray on guys in this very scenario.

Or he means to attack her and she reaches for a gun except she doesn't have one because the law wouldn't allow it.

If the scenario you describe was really a problem you would hear about more shootings like this in the news. The opposite is true. You NEVER hear about a CCW person defending themselves. Once the attacker is confronted with an armed victim it usually ends the confrontation without violence.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Not if you think it is avoidable.
But if you feel that an assault will happen (with or without a gun) you might take your chance.
What Zimmerman did was stupid and not illegal (probably, based on the current picutre).
And if Trayvon felt threatened then under SYG what he did was probably stupid, and not illegal either.
Even if he didn't see the gun, if he had reason to feel threatened, he was perfectly justified in attacking Zimmerman in what would otherwise be called assault.

That is the travesty of the SYG law.
2 people meet, one of them dies, noone did anything illegal under the current laws.

You make excellent point though your speculation on the facts.

However that is all anyone can do, speculate.

We need to let the legal system work. I say legal system, and not justice system, because we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system and hope that through the legal system justice is obtained.

Originally Posted by LameBMX

If your comfy its just a threat, its the BEST gameplan.

If you believe they are actually going to shoot you (not that you could ever know for certain) you are better to jump them. The moment you are past arms reach, you have nothing protecting you, within arms reach, at least you have a chance to control where the gun is pointing. Probably still get killed, but the odds of survival are a bit better than the 3 foot to 30 foot range running away.

Actually if you can put at least 10 feet or more between you and the shooter and you stay on the move the chances of being hit are very low. Most people including crack shots can't hit the broad side of a barn if its moving.

Originally Posted by Deerhunter1995

well nothing towards you but if he was attacted and shot the guy while he was reciving a beating from him then he was defending his own life and even if he does got to a full out trial its better to be judged by 9 than carried to the grave by 6.

I threaten you.
you attack because you feel threatened.
I pull a gun and shoot you.
Now I get a pat on the back and walk away?

That is what you are arguing.

Originally Posted by mhailey

You make excellent point though your speculation on the facts.

However that is all anyone can do, speculate.

We need to let the legal system work. I say legal system, and not justice system, because we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system and hope that through the legal system justice is obtained.

I agree with you 100%.

I am definitely not arguing that one party is or is not guilty. We have very little accurate information to go by.
But he should have been brought before a grand jury because we can see that there is enough confusion and uncertainty as to what happened, that just sending him home with a 'no harm no foul' doesn't cut it.

And unfortunately, I think that one of the conclusions in this case is that the SYG law is a piece of crap.

Originally Posted by Bruno

And unfortunately, I think that one of the conclusions in this case is that the SYG law is a piece of crap.

It's called the Castle Law in Texas and I for one am glad it's here. There have been no problems with it since it was enacted and extends your home protection from prosecution to your car. You shouldn't be arrested for shooting a car jacker.

I don't know if this is included in the Florida law, but if you provoke or threaten the person before you shoot them the protection goes away.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

I don't know if this is included in the Florida law, but if you provoke or threaten the person before you shoot them the protection goes away.

That is what this whole case will be about. It is not about whether Trayvon was attacking Zimmerman or not. It will all be about whether he was justified in attacking Zimmerman or not.