Thread: Trayvon Martin (pardon me if this subject is verboten.)

Must be why I cannot find brass for my BMG

I have to wonder what would be going on IF Zimmerman was catching a beating and in fear for his life,and pulled a knife and cut the kids throat and killed him.
would there be as much ruckus? Especially if it was just a pocket knife. As for carrying a gun outside, when I did it for a living (rent collector) I found that I was a much calmer person and walked away from altercations that could have easily gotten out of hand, having the ultimate winner on my hip made me walk away as no matter if I was involved in a clean shoot or not,as Glen mentioned,there was going to be consequences,whether I was right or wrong,and when in my twenties,and unarmed,I was just as likely to start swinging as not because I was young and not going to be charged with weapon possession.just my 2 cents/

You have to be very careful where you get your statistics from. often times if they come from any organization with an interest either pro or against guns the stats are worthless because when you try and verify them you can't. Often times they are based on anecdotal sources or simply made up.

Very True !

I am not Rambo. Let me tell you a little story about why I am such a supporter of CCW and why I carried before it was legal.

27 years ago I was introduced to a gentleman by a childhood friend. Let's just call him SB. Over the period of a year or two SB became my friend. SB was not your average person. He lived with a wife and girlfriend. The girls worked together and all 3 slept in the same waterbed.
SB started having some mental problems and was going to a therapist. He was on medication to calm him down. One day the wife decided that she had enough and moved out. SB went crazy apparently. A week later I got a call from him. He said, "Come and help me, I have shot both the girls". Now my friendship did not extend to attempted murder. My brother-in-law and I cruised by the house a couple of hours later and there were cop cars all over the place. I thought this would be the end of my involvement. Sadly, no. He shot both girls twice. Neither was killed. The girlfriend was just wounded and was out of the hospital in a few days. The wife lost the use of her legs.
The girlfriend called and wanted me to guard her and both mothers while they cleaned out the house. I did this for them. None of us knew when he would get out of jail or what his state of mind was. At his trial he got 10 years for the wife and 10 years probation for the girlfriend. He was out in 3.5 years.

I was shocked to learn at the trial that he claimed he went crazy because I was having an affair with his wife. No truth in it at all. He wrote me a letter from jail asking why I didn't visit him. My wife and I had dumped ALL our friends, got all new ones and changed our lives. We wanted no part of the old one.

When he got out of jail he left a message on my house phone telling me to say hi to my wife for him. We started keeping a gun by the door. I always thought I might run into him somewhere. It was kinda like a dog that turned on you once. You never will completely trust him again. I started carrying a gun against the time we met. In all these years we never have. Carrying a gun got to be a habit especially that it is legal now. I even carry when I fly to other states, carefully checking the gun laws and airline regulations. I feel undressed without one now even with it dragging my pants down and the discomfort. I wear one at work with the consent of my employers. I wear it on service calls.

It is the reason I study politics and pay attention to what politicians do.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

I am not Rambo. Let me tell you a little story about why I am such a supporter of CCW and why I carried before it was legal.

27 years ago I was introduced to a gentleman by a childhood friend. Let's just call him SB. Over the period of a year or two SB became my friend. SB was not your average person. He lived with a wife and girlfriend. The girls worked together and all 3 slept in the same waterbed.
SB started having some mental problems and was going to a therapist. He was on medication to calm him down. One day the wife decided that she had enough and moved out. SB went crazy apparently. A week later I got a call from him. He said, "Come and help me, I have shot both the girls". Now my friendship did not extend to attempted murder. My brother-in-law and I cruised by the house a couple of hours later and there were cop cars all over the place. I thought this would be the end of my involvement. Sadly, no. He shot both girls twice. Neither was killed. The girlfriend was just wounded and was out of the hospital in a few days. The wife lost the use of her legs.
The girlfriend called and wanted me to guard her and both mothers while they cleaned out the house. I did this for them. None of us knew when he would get out of jail or what his state of mind was. At his trial he got 10 years for the wife and 10 years probation for the girlfriend. He was out in 3.5 years.

I was shocked to learn at the trial that he claimed he went crazy because I was having an affair with his wife. No truth in it at all. He wrote me a letter from jail asking why I didn't visit him. My wife and I had dumped ALL our friends, got all new ones and changed our lives. We wanted no part of the old one.

When he got out of jail he left a message on my house phone telling me to say hi to my wife for him. We started keeping a gun by the door. I always thought I might run into him somewhere. It was kinda like a dog that turned on you once. You never will completely trust him again. I started carrying a gun against the time we met. In all these years we never have. Carrying a gun got to be a habit especially that it is legal now. I even carry when I fly to other states, carefully checking the gun laws and airline regulations. I feel undressed without one now even with it dragging my pants down and the discomfort. I wear one at work with the consent of my employers. I wear it on service calls.

It is the reason I study politics and pay attention to what politicians do.

man...irving's gotten wild since i lived there

i'm sure everyone has good reasons to carry that do...well, maybe not EVERYONE...but most. i always figured if i was in a situation where i was defending my own life, the guy trying to do harm to me would probably have the drop on me and i would get myself shot reaching for mine...so i figure i have a better chance just trying to disarm him depending on how close he is.

Here's one verifiable source for Kennesaw, GA : Kennesaw Crime Statistics: Georgia (GA) - CityRating.com These stats are much more recent than the earlier article link. The source of actual data on this crime rate report is the FBI Report of Offenses Known to Law Enforcement. If the FBI was going to "cook" some stats, it would probably be in the "anti-gun" direction instead of "pro-gun" (ref: Hijacking The Second Amendment).

Then again, maybe some percentage of the reported incidents were fudged (perhaps by Kennesaw or GA?) in the hope of acquiring some state or federal crime funding.

EDIT: a news report from 2001 with more verifiable info.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Here's one verifiable source for Kennesaw, GA : Kennesaw Crime Statistics: Georgia (GA) - CityRating.com These stats are much more recent than the earlier article link. The source of actual data on this crime rate report is the FBI Report of Offenses Known to Law Enforcement. If the FBI was going to "cook" some stats, it would probably be in the "anti-gun" direction instead of "pro-gun" (ref: Hijacking The Second Amendment).

Then again, maybe some percentage of the reported incidents were fudged (perhaps by Kennesaw or GA?) in the hope of acquiring some state or federal crime funding.

EDIT: a news report from 2001 with more verifiable info.

Unfortunately there can be many reasons for the statistical result. You can't make a generalization that if A happens B is the result. You would have to do a lot of analysis and investigation before reaching any valid conclusion. It's no different than if an anti gun group produced stats from a city where access to guns was restricted and the crime rate went down and they claimed it was because of the law. There could be many reasons for it.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Unfortunately there can be many reasons for the statistical result. You can't make a generalization that if A happens B is the result. You would have to do a lot of analysis and investigation before reaching any valid conclusion. It's no different than if an anti gun group produced stats from a city where access to guns was restricted and the crime rate went down and they claimed it was because of the law. There could be many reasons for it.

What other reasons might that be?

I'm pretty sure they did a lot of analysis in the CityRating link. The second link compares an anti-gun city of similar size to Kennesaw. An anti-gun group has refused all invitations to even comment about Kennesaw, GA statistics.

Maybe Kennesaw just has LEO's from 1.6 (GA) to 2 (USA) times better than everywhere else. Maybe the Kennesaw water supply is drugged. Maybe all the citizens are just extra-docile for some unexplained reason.

I'd love to hear any of the other numerous conclusions for the large crime reduction, both statewide and nationally? Can you provide any citations/documentation or news reports re. Kennesaw, to support your position, as I have in my previous post in this thread?

Originally Posted by Sticky

What other reasons might that be?

I'm pretty sure they did a lot of analysis in the CityRating link. The second link compares an anti-gun city of similar size to Kennesaw. An anti-gun group has refused all invitations to even comment about Kennesaw, GA statistics.

Maybe Kennesaw just has LEO's from 1.6 (GA) to 2 (USA) times better than everywhere else. Maybe the Kennesaw water supply is drugged. Maybe all the citizens are just extra-docile for some unexplained reason.

I'd love to hear any of the other numerous conclusions for the large crime reduction, both statewide and nationally? Can you provide any citations/documentation or news reports re. Kennesaw, to support your position, as I have in my last post?

Maybe there were certain people in Kennesaw that were causing a majority of the trouble and they went to jail, or moved away, or died...Maybe there was a rise in churches and they had a full on revival in Kennesaw. Maybe they had a more effective police force or stepped up their patrol and Kennesaw didn't look as easy a target to criminals. Maybe Jupiter was in retrograde or some crap like that. In Chicago weather impacts the crime rate...there are tons of variables why ANYTHING happens. Those who see that as the only cause do so because they WANT to see that as the only cause...but for the objective folks, we try not to jump to conclusions or take everything that anyone feeds us as the one and only truth. Also, I have no citations/documentation as researching all of the potential variables above (and the other ones that exist) would take more time than is worth it to me.