Thread: Is it worth it?

I'll let you know when it shows up! Sure will look nice in my billards room

Originally Posted by joebehar

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I agree with you that our free markets are not always rational, mostly unquantifiable and definitely operate on a whim a lot of the time, but they are still better than the alternative.

I, for one, do not want to live in a country where someone else decides how much I should spend on any given item. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for ethical business and a free for all with shady practices does no one any good. In the end, an educated buyer is the only real solution to these boom and bust cycles we go through, but now I'm going back to the whole education thing again and we finished with that in another thread recently

I may be Canadian, but I'm still a proponent of free markets.

Absolutely. I think we are in agreement actually, and were probably just having definitional adjustments...

I am with you - the market is a very simple, logical and data-driven ideal and I for one certainly don't have a better idea (although I do like the idea of Feudalism, so long as I am at the top of the heap!). But I also think it is always good to know the limitations of the model you are working with so that you can adjust when necessary, or at least have an interesting debate!

James.

Ah, for the good old days of feudalism...its good to be king, but with my luck I would end up one of the peasants shoveling s**t for a living

Tulips anyone ?

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Jimbo

To top it off, the value of art seems to be related to whether the artist is dead or not also. I guess what that really is is scarcity. Dead artists make no more art, although it seems their family can usually scrape together some long-forgotten scraps of discarded rubbish and flog it for a last-ditch milking of their relative's talent. But again, I digress

I've actually had someone explain this to me, and it makes sense that the value increases when the artist is dead.
Because as long as he lives, there is the potential that he will make better, more interesting things. As long as he lives it is not possible to assess the quality of a work compared to the other things he might yet make. And additionally, the artist himself might do something that make his works less desirable later on (like turning out to be a pedophile to give an extreme example).

However, as soon as he dies, all becomes static and all his work can be judged and compared to the rest of his work.

I don't understand how it went for that muchminey? You can rent "scream" from the movie rentals....... What? You guys aren't talking about Courtney Cox?.... Akward... Nevermind...

Serioursly though, although shocked at the price, I am glad capitalizism is still working in some countries. I would hate to see the government control the price of things like that..... Except mabe fo Fillys and duble ducks.. They could bring those down a scosh...... Like that guy selling Filly's for 1,500$., that's ridiculous.

Won't get into the idea of value... but it's sad to think that whoever bought it did so with untax/lightly taxed $'s and will probably write it off on their taxes for this year. That's what's wrong.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Clearly the value of things like art is not in the inputs (paint, canvas, frame, talent) like it may be with something like a car. Or at least the utilitarian car. Higher end cars, as Birnando mentioned, are different I think. But then higher end cars are marketed, and maybe even designed, to speak to people in a more personal way than a Volkswagen Golf GTi, for example, which clearly is meant to speak to people who like to speed, cut others off, run red lights and generally cause havoc and act like tools wherever they go!!! But I digress....

James.

so how is that VW on fuel?

Originally Posted by Johnus

Won't get into the idea of value... but it's sad to think that whoever bought it did so with untax/lightly taxed $'s and will probably write it off on their taxes for this year. That's what's wrong.

so just how much tax is fair? if it was purchased by a company or an individual the only way they will be able to "write it off" on their taxes is to donate it to charity.... and charitabe donations are not as good as they used to be.
the only folks who did well on the sale was sotherbey's and the seller.

This is really a very complex subject and much is dependent on human nature and the ebb and flow of uncertainty. Of course we can dispense with the "if you don't think it's worth much then it's not to you" since we are talking market here.

Even if an item is scarce it doesn't mean it's value will rise and even if something is in demand likewise. So if an item is scarce and in demand will it rise with certainty? No it won't because an ingredient is missing. The drive to obtain it no matter the cost which makes demand capricious. You can have the corner on the worlds supply of some gem and be making a mint and then style changes and you can't give the stuff away. Why is a basic Rolex watch around 6 grand? It's because people attribute certain qualities to the piece and when they strap the watch on those qualities define them. Maybe some day Rolex will be involved in some scandal and then that image will fall and that 6 grand watch will be had for a couple hundred. Maybe some day someone will find some secret papers and discover The Scream was really painted by a trained Chimp at the local zoo and in the basement are 50 more.

Just think about all of the "in" things that have come along and made the inventor rich, things that are really stupid and make no sense and no one could ever have predicted but yet a confluence of circumstances occurred. Things like pet rocks and hula hoops and all the other things you just had to have during your life in a similar vein
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As far as art goes well what is it about that painting that makes it in demand? is it technical excellence? the person who painted it? the message it sends? maybe it's just that rich people say it's worth that much money and are willing to pay it. Really no different than why a razor goes for the price it goes for. The scale is different but the concept is the same.

Some might say it's human nature, that we are all sheep looking to follow the leader so when the leader says jump we all jump. It's why we wear the "current fashion" in clothes and most of us are looking to conform and fit in and those who don't pay a price. Maybe the person who bought that artwork is really proud to have it and show it and makes him or her feel really special or maybe it was bought by someone who couldn't care less about art but sees it as an investment and will put it away and it will never see the light of day again until the price rises.

Logic, chaos, reason, chance? Take your pick.