Thread: Where Do We Draw The Line?

Originally Posted by Crotalus

The biggest problem I have with government is that it does absolutely nothing well or efficiently.

Social Security - Bankrupt.
Post Office - Bankrupt.
Medicare - Bankrupt and full of fraud.
Obamacare will push us over the financial cliff.

Perhaps. But is private industry doing it better?
Decent healthcare coverage is becoming so expensive in the US that many can't afford it. It was like that before Obama got elected. In fact, it is so bad that it GOT him elected. And that is if you don't lose your job, because if you do, then you get dumped. One person here on this forum cut his fingers to the bone and didn't want to go to the ER because of what it would cost him. Over here, that would not be a consideration.

I've argued this before: our healthcare system does not have fat insurance company and expensive lawyers. It only has the clients and the providers. And a government sponsored administration. As a result, our healthcare is much cheaper than yours. And not only do I get covered, but so do people who are in between jobs or disabled.

Perhaps Americans are unable to make it work, but for other countries it is working just fine.
There is nothing wrong with the principle of socialized healthcare. And personally, I think it is more important that the general population gets affordable healthcare than that insurance companies and medical lawyer can make increasing profits quarter over quarter.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Perhaps. But is private industry doing it better?
Decent healthcare coverage is becoming so expensive in the US that many can't afford it. It was like that before Obama got elected. In fact, it is so bad that it GOT him elected. And that is if you don't lose your job, because if you do, then you get dumped. One person here on this forum cut his fingers to the bone and didn't want to go to the ER because of what it would cost him. Over here, that would not be a consideration.

I've argued this before: our healthcare system does not have fat insurance company and expensive lawyers. It only has the clients and the providers. And a government sponsored administration. As a result, our healthcare is much cheaper than yours. And not only do I get covered, but so do people who are in between jobs or disabled.

Perhaps Americans are unable to make it work, but for other countries it is working just fine.
There is nothing wrong with the principle of socialized healthcare. And personally, I think it is more important that the general population gets affordable healthcare than that insurance companies and medical lawyer can make increasing profits quarter over quarter.

You don't have to be able to afford healthcare. It has always been and is still free for the needy. You just have to put up with the long lines at the designated Emergency Room.

What will fix our healthcare will take a long time but you can see the results of the proper direction in a few areas. Right now healthcare costs so much because people on insurance don't know or care what it costs. They only care about their deductible.

What needs to happen is healthcare needs to be forced into the open market.

Lasik surgery, back treatments, lap bands, body scanning, and others are affordable and wide spread because they are in competition with each other with advertised prices. I think if all medicine was exposed to the free market like this prices would come down dramatically and quality would improve at the same time. The same is true of insurance. If companies were free to compete across state lines insurance rates would improve as well.

We need less regulation, not more.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

You don't have to be able to afford healthcare. It has always been and is still free for the needy. You just have to put up with the long lines at the designated Emergency Room.

Where they get the most expensive care option possible.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Right now healthcare costs so much because people on insurance don't know or care what it costs. They only care about their deductible.

May be they should pay for their insurance out of their paycheck, instead of having their employers deduct it for them. How about giving them the same tax deductions as employers get (or stop the tax deductions altogether) and let them make their own decision what insurance to buy with their money. Then stop providing that free 'emergency service' option and let those who make poor decisions suffer the full consequences of these decisions. If somebody is so sick that nobody is willing to insure them or pay for their medical bills, then they should simply be left to die. You want to get rid of all 'unfairness' - it's not that hard to do.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

The same is true of insurance. If companies were free to compete across state lines insurance rates would improve as well.

Just like the banks competed on all those fees they used to charge, right? Or the way the insurance companies fought for all those uninsured people. You should talk to Undream, he got a sweet deal on flood insurance on his house.

I guess it's sort of like when the Pres. takes his oath of office. I believe it goes something like "I swear to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United Staes (All 57 of 'em). If I didn't know better, I would think he was lying through his teeth when he took that oath.

And then there is his book published in 2007 where he stated in print that the Constitution is an obstacle for him in the achievement of his goals. One year later he wins the presidency.

I say blame the apethetic citizens, especially all the ones who don't even vote. There in lies much of the problem.

Jerry

Originally Posted by mrsell63

I say blame the apethetic citizens, especially all the ones who don't even vote. There in lies much of the problem.Jerry

Why should I vote if I don't believe in or agree with any of the candidates? Having the right to vote is also having the right to not vote.

Originally Posted by Theseus

Why should I vote if I don't believe in or agree with any of the candidates? Having the right to vote is also having the right to not vote.

If nobody voted, government officials would have a field day. Welcome to the full dictatorship........

Jerry

Just one thing.. storage isnt the problem,BMW has a hydrogen car which works fine and at this moment they are building a hydrogen highway in Finland I believe.

There storage cell seems to work fine.

I've always thought the two party system was only marginally better than a one party system... always had a problem trying to decide who to vote against.

I see the basic problem as human nature. Greedy people = greedy people voted into office. Greedy elected official = bribable official. The occasional non-greedy or "non-cooperative" official is swimming in a sea of greedy ones, they probably don't last very long.

Originally Posted by Theseus

Why should I vote if I don't believe in or agree with any of the candidates? Having the right to vote is also having the right to not vote.

Nope....Although free elections are part of the freedoms we enjoy, I believe voting is an obligation not a right. Its one of the very, very small prices we pay for democracy.

Theseus, I'm sure you're a great guy, but you're off the mark on this one.

Originally Posted by joebehar

Nope....Although free elections are part of the freedoms we enjoy, I believe voting is an obligation not a right. Its one of the very, very small prices we pay for democracy.Theseus, I'm sure you're a great guy, but you're off the mark on this one.

I never said I don't vote. I'm saying that you shouldn't feel "obligated" to vote if the only reason you are voting is to choose the lesser of two evils. I tend to hold my moral obligations much higher than my political ones.