Thread: Where Do We Draw The Line?

Originally Posted by Crotalus

You don't have to be able to afford healthcare. It has always been and is still free for the needy. You just have to put up with the long lines at the designated Emergency Room.

Yes. And then they'll be stuck with a 100K$ bill because they were unlucky enough to need a moderately complex procedure, and they're bankrupted immediately. How compassionate.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

What will fix our healthcare will take a long time but you can see the results of the proper direction in a few areas. Right now healthcare costs so much because people on insurance don't know or care what it costs. They only care about their deductible.

It costs so much because it is not affordable without insurance. Ans since the insurance companies then have to pay for everything, hospitals can charge more. And dont' forget the lawyers and insurance companies.

If every person requires on average 100$ of coverage per year here, then it will be about the same in the US, right? Assuming averages work out more or less. Only in the US, each person also contributes to the profit of the insurance companies, and the lawyers that make the entire wheel go round.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Lasik surgery, back treatments, lap bands, body scanning, and others are affordable and wide spread because they are in competition with each other with advertised prices. I think if all medicine was exposed to the free market like this prices would come down dramatically and quality would improve at the same time. The same is true of insurance. If companies were free to compete across state lines insurance rates would improve as well.

Because those are all optional treatements. You can elect not to have them.
Otoh, if your appendix needs to come out or you're having a heart attack or you break a leg, you don't have the option of choosing not to have surgery at the nearest hospital.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

We need less regulation, not more.

Because big business has proven many times over that if they're not regulated, they compete fairly to the betterment of the customers?

To elaborate on what I wrote earlier - what I see as balance:

Government should be able to afford itself
This is pretty self explanatory... The only question is "how?"
In my opinion the best solution is for government to maintain relatively low tax rates, do what it can to promote economic growth - and absolutely not spend more than it takes in.

Government should ensure the liberty of the people
IOW - criminal law. This is not just protecting the physical safety, but also property rights. That includes regulations that prevent business entities from ripping off the people, while not passing laws that over-reach that point. Yeah, there are lots of laws on the books because some idiot somewhere tried to rip people off - those idiots deserve to be incarcerated (note I didn't refer to an evil corporation - most corporations, or large companies are not evil!). Laws that go beyond simple protection of health / safety / property rights are not needed.

Government should not pass laws that change supply / demand of any product or service
Price controls, floors, ceilings, and subsidies have been shown historically to cause more harm than good in the long run.

Government should not spend its time on social or religious issues
This, in my opinion, is not the realm of government. It doesn't matter which way these laws go - it amounts to one side of an issue imposing its will on the other. That is not freedom.

Government should not pass legislation based on news headlines
This is one of the biggest for me - uninformed legislators fighting to be the first to get their name in the news with a popular story that people are following. Probably more stupid laws have been passed as a result of this than anything else.
Also interesting, and ultimately what changed my view of politics - is that a party will go against it's own core values to try and promote itself in the manner they see public opinion going. Amusingly, the other party takes the opposite stance, because the nature of a (ridiculous) two-party system is that you can't be in agreement with the other guys.

Government should not pass "feel good" laws or resolutions
It is not the business of government to waste time on things like baseball or whether a family has a right to "pull the plug" on a brain-dead family member.
It is also pointless to spend time on resolutions regarding stuff school kids send in.

Government should not be a means to a lifestyle
I am all for programs that provide insurance against catastrophe and help people get back on their feet or help to those that are stuck at the bottom due to circumstances beyond their control.
I am absolutely not ok with programs that allow people to use the government as their sole means of living indefinitely, or as a subsidy for people that are not in a situation where a subsidy is necessary.
I may not be expressing myself clearly - the point is that I am in favor of programs that help people become productive members of society. I just think that the maximum level that's paid out by these programs is WAY too high. Doesn't it seem a little incongruous to be on food stamps and getting $8k a year "back" in taxes (when $0 is paid in) while living in a 1400 square foot apartment with a car lease of $400 / month and taking a week long trip to Mexico every spring?

Oh - and don't tell me what I can or can't eat, and for God's sake - keep your hands off my guns!

There is no such thing as free health care. Those with insurance pay for those who do not have it and can't afford to pay.

Also the idea you can just saunter in to the local emergency room and get you problem taken care of is total myth. The emergency room does not handle your problem in such manner, they only stabilize your condition, treat pain and treat a life threatening issue like your bleeding to death or can't breath.

Otherwise you get some pills and are told to see a doctor.

If you think you can get treated from soup to nuts for any other condition, unless you meet the poverty guidelines you are in for a big shock.