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Hanging is stil an option in New Hampshire if lethal injection cannot be given and in Washington, an inmate can request death by hanging over lethal injection.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Methods of Execution | Death Penalty Information Center
I just did a quick search and hanging is still an option in Washington and New Hampshire. In Washington, the condemned have the right to choose. In New Hampshire it is only used when lethal injection is not a viable option.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Beat me to it.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by ReardenSteel
My bad,sorry,is actually not a bad way to go,is very quick.If done correctallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Theseus
I remember reading somewhere that there is a mathmatical formula used to determine the correct length of rope to be used for a standard gallows, taking into account height and weight among other factors, so that the death is as instant and painless as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
this is an outrage!!! why would anybody , for any reason feel bad for a guy that got caught red handed molesting a young child. he did what people for thousands of years have done and that is pertecting himself and his family. its sad that the world has come to question ones right to defend themselves and there family. personally i think this is great that he died and it cut out all the red tape . i think that if people had more to worry about than our joke of criminal justice system that crimes may decrease. if the man would not have died at the scene he may have got a life sentance which is not life, just 25 years we being tax paying citizens would be making sure he got 3 meals a day, a bed and a roof over his head. but does he deserve it? the answer is no he deserves what he got along with all the other rapists, murders, molesters, child abusers, the list goes on. our country being the USA is a weak, weak country when it comes to punishing those that have broken the law. death row is a joke , as soon as found guilty they should exicute with in minutes. this sounds harsh i know but criminals forfit there rights when the commit a crime like this. i have several friends from nigeria at work and they say that if a person is caught steeling that they hope the police find them before the street vendors do because even theft is enough that towns people rise up and chase the criminal and if they catch him that the most common punishment is to be stuffed inside car tires, soaked in gas and lit on fire alive. and this is just for stealing. but i bet the next guy thinks twice. maybe i have a crazy harsh opinion but i feel that america treats criminals way better than they should be. sit down and add up how much money is spent in one year in the usa to house and feed inmates and pay the guards, fix the buildings all the things it takes to keep all of our beloved crimanals alive and then see how long of not paying that would make our national debt vanish. hate is a terrible thing , i know this but is believing that people who commit terrible crimes deserve to die for what they have done considered hate? i think not. i think that people all over the world have grown weak with emotion about death as a punishment. the romans lasted about 1000 years and i assure you they punished to the fullest. this is just one small case of a man acting by instinct to pertect his family and he will most likely be the one punished for it. its a shame it really is.
True, is an actual artform of sorts,the noose has to be done correctally,the knot needs to be placed perfectally on the C2 spinal verterbra,this way it transects the spinal cord,death is painless.the body will twitch around for a few mins,but the victim has no knowledge of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseus
What I would like for you to explain, is how you made that leap from the "Bull Barrel", to "instant and painless as possible" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseus
I live 1 block from the Davie Rodeo Grounds; I will never see bullriding the same again. You have scared me for life.
do we have to bring sanduskey into this subject lol i live 30 min from him and its been a 3 ring circus up here with his trial going on. poor jopa joe paterno was dragged into that mess but thats a whole new subject. carry one guys lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad
Not all criminals deserve torture over death.:medvl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
Yes. I have daughters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotalus
I'm guessing you don't have a daughter. Although it would not be my logical choice of how to handle things, when it comes to defending my daughters there are times reason does not win over emotion or outrage. Although I am well versed in defending others (victims) from this type of predator, I cannot say for certain that I would not act with extreme violence had one of my daughters been the victim.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
I find your statement about the US moving from the 19th Century mentality insulting.
It's a difficult thing, but I still feel we should love our enemies. It's not their fault there is evil in the world. My nature would be to hurt them very badly, but I'd be the one to have to live with that. I couldn't reconcile that act, as much as the darker side of my nature might relish it. I'd like to think of a higher aim. I'd like to think that love could prevail. All very esoteric and airy fairy, I know...
[EDIT] To add to this...
I very much respect guys' tendencies to want to enact extreme acts of violence on the perpetrator, but, without wanting to sound condescending, we can all over emphasise our physical capabilities at times.
I think maybe at times we need to hold our ideals above any physical thing, even if that physical thing is our own child. I know that's a very extreme ideal, and I don't know if I could do it, but when I hear of parents in Africa being forced to kill their own kids, I feel that life is not worth corruption of one's values. I would certainly kill someone attacking my family with ease, but I'd still feel soiled by the act, I'm certain.
Maybe the dude got what he deserved but i cannot be happy for death of anyone.
It is quite hard to kill someone by just punching him. Even the mythical hollywood 'uppercut under the nose' will do no worse than giving you a terrible headache, and a nose that resembles a flattened tomato. However, people tend to fall when you hit them in the head. Fall with your head on the corner of a table or bedpost, and you can die rather easily. And that is ignoring medical conditions like already weakend arteries, high blood pressure and weakened neck muscles or weakened bones.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
Personally I would prefer the firing squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReardenSteel
I believe the Father did the right thing. No need for a lengthy trial to put that poor girl through anymore mental pain just so he has the option to walk or get a reduced sentence only to repeat this crime again.
I feel that kind of person has a mental illness and no amount of jail time or rehab would change it. This way, the cycle stops for that man.
It's a difficult case and evokes very strong feelings. I have a daughter, now grown up, and it's likely that I would have done the same in the heat of the moment.
In most cases mob rule and summary justice are a very bad thing, not least because in many cases the target is often innocent.
In the UK a young man has just been released from prison because in the light of new evidence, it is now clear that he didn't commit the murder he was jailed for. He 'only' lost 5yrs of freedom, what if he'd been executed?
Granted, living by the rule of law in civilised society has its drawbacks, but the alternative would be a lot worse.
My opposition to the death penalty stems largely from cases that will be well know to fellow Canadians: Donald Marshall Jr., Guy Paul Morin, and David Milgaard are just three well known examples of innocent people convicted wrongfully of heinous crimes. If we had the death penalty, there is a good chance that all three would themselves have been wrongfully executed.Quote:
Originally Posted by welshwizard
"...Late breaking story on the CBC
A nation whispers, we always knew that he'd go free"
Couldn't resist a Hip reference... :rock:
I don't think the father did anything wrong. He doesn't seem to have premeditated what he was going to do. He didn't stop half way through to think of deserved tortures. Without knowing the exact facts I will assume he stopped the assault as soon as he saw the low life was not moving.
Ironicly, if he had lived then the father could have gone to jail. It is only when we have time to think about what we would do that thoughts of torture come into our heads. First gut reaction, I think in all of us, is to beat the low life senseless. Then if he lives we start to think about what else we can do to him. But if he dies from the beating, then it stops there.
The police have stated that the father was very remorseful after the attack. Apparently the death has cause him great suffering. The police still have not released the father's name.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
I'm sorry, but this sounds like happy horsesh*t, If I encountered a rabid dog I could still put him down and still love dogs. I don't love my enemies,I feel sorry for them,because as a decent human being for them to be considered an enemy,they have done me or mine a great wrong,and if that IS the fact,then nothing would stop me from exacting my vengeance,especially if it concerned my kids,and I would sleep like a baby..JMHOQuote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
I can readily believe this. It would greatly surprise me if he had planned to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotalus
If you can take a human life and be casual about it, something is wrong.
Well, that reply got a laugh out of me and you're probably right. However, maybe to feel 'sorry' for someone shows some amount of love, doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzley1
You're too emotionally attached to your enemies. They don't need or desire your sorrow for them. Your vengeance could come at a price to your own safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzley1
I'm sure the person being discussed had no emotion at all. He was simply defending his daughter & possibly himself & the only way to be sure both were safe was when the attacker was neutralised.
I have two words. "jury nullification"
R
There is a very good chance he will be "No billed" according to the sherriff. That would be nice. At a club up the road from me a man was punched one time. It killed him. Not hitting his head on the ground or a table. It was one punch and he was dead.
Did he have any medical condition? Because normally, that won't happen unless there are aggravating medical circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by EMC45
Otherwise, boxers would die in large numbers :)
I think the hinge on this is, did the father continue to beat the molester after he went limp? I mean if the dad cracked the molester 5 or 6 times in quick succession and reasonably stopped when he noticed the other individual went limp (give a bit of leeway for 1 or 2 blows in the heat of the moment). Then yea he should, he put the dude down and he wound up dead. However if the molester was knocked out on the first punch, and the dad knew the guy was out cold and in no way shape or form a threat. then the dad continued to beat him until he was dead. In this scenario it would be taking the law into his own hands, he was judge jury and excutioner. In the first case he defended his daughter and the guy wound up dead. IMHO that there is the hinge between justified & vigilanteeism(sp?) Anger is no justification for murder, otherwise everytime someone gets angry they can murder someone. I am sure someone was angry at you at some point in your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotalus
Those who die their first few times at the gym don't wind up on TV. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Hi Rob,Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
With all respects to the UK, there are two seperate but equally emotional things in this particular situation.
1. Although unintentional, the amount of raw emotion that anyone, especially a parent would experience finding so young a child in the process of being molested, and the reaction to defend somone so innocent. This would push most people into reaction beyond reason. Meaning there was NO consideration that what he was doing was passing any form of judgement and punishment, just an unbridled reaction.
This has without a doubt contributed to the fathers response, and caused the death of the molester.
Here in the U.S. most can imagine and understand a situation where reaction overrides reason (especially in defense of yourself, family or the innocent). This is why the U.S. court system allows for a jury of your peers (the common citizen) to decide guilt. It is intentional design.
In different situations like the Treyvon Martin case (I'm not making a judgement here) a jury of his peers may find that Zimmerman went beyond how the common citizen would have handled the situation and find Zimmerman guilty.
For this intentional reason the father will most likely never be found guilty. In fact most prosecutors, if they are satisfied that the father is truly, remoreseful may choose not to press charges understanding the expected outcome.
2. Citizens making an intentional decision to pass judgement and meet out there own punishment.
The U.S. court system accounts for this, in that if a reasonable person, in the same situatution would react in the same manner, then there is no pre-meditation. If the common person would resonably react different then you would or should have considered the outcome and used reason to affect justice using the proper manner and authorities.
Facing the same court system here in the U.S. in most cases will receive punishment appropriate to there crime.
Just my $0.02
This is one reason why you can not allow the state to have a monopoly on violence. It is funny how they can hold you responsible for violence and then yet the state is hardly responsible for anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt69
BTW How can any man consider himself a proper father and protector without doing the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by nun2sharp
The State does not have a monopoly on violence. There are others, known as Criminals, who also deal in it perhaps more frequently than the democratically elected State does.
I am all for protecting myself and my loved ones, but I refuse to accept that "protection" and "violence" are synonymous. In addition, there are, I believe, many ways to subdue an individual without in fact killing them. Of course if the individual is armed you may have no choice but to commit extreme violence upon their person but thankfully I also believe those situations are rare.
As an example of what I believe in, the other week my MMA class was learning knife defense. All very "1%" stuff, yet interesting nonetheless. We came to the part where, after securing the wrist, we use the momentum of the attacker's arm to swing the knife hand down and behind their back. On the way through, there's the option to knife them in the ribs with their own weapon - very "poetic justice". After all, this person was swinging a knife at you, right? One of the instructors said "but we don't encourage that any more - who knows why?" The answer, it appears, is that our training makes it easier to be prosecuted, as we are "weapons" (I am more a tool, but that is another story).
Everyone nodded sagely and looked slightly disappointed!! I raised my hand and said "and, morally of course." Everyone stared at me blankly. "Umm, morally we should not be wanting to kill people, right?"
Blank stares.
James.
But a Useful Tool James...Lets not have you think that everybody out there thinks of you as a Useless Tool afterall. :)
Mick
Increasing the accountability of those trained in martial arts should be expected. In this particular case, sticking with my opinion, martial artist or (un)lucky strike really makes no difference. The training not only makes one more proficient in causing grave injury, but more proficient in protecting one's self without causing grave injury to the other party. More specifically, in the OP's example, more aware during the fight. If I was on the jury I would let a bit more slide after the person went limp for an untrained individual than a fairly well trained martial artist. Personally I would be a hard sell that you lost control & succumbed to raw adrenaline when you have spent years training for just that sort of situation. Even though the emotion level is higher, I would expect the trained martial artist to be able to rein things in quicker than Joe Sixpack. I would of course exclude something like an army soldier who had seen action and showed PTSD proof. Just a few pennies in the convo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Love reading this stuff,MMA classes,martial artists,PSTDs,any of you ever been in a real bar fight?
None of the above meens sqautola.You can be Mr. 250 lbs of muscle and Co$ck,trained in the inth degree,you might even be a seals sniper:),you square off with me, and I will egg you on,than my buddy will split your head open with a pool que, from where you will never realize.Than you are out for the count.
Human minds do not function during a fit of rage,thats why we have pleas of temporary insanity.
Of course none of the gentlemen on these boards have ever had a spat of insanitys:)
I used to bounce at a club for about three years, I've been in probably over a hundred bar fights. I used my jujitsu in every single one of them.
I agree that your brain doesn't function in a fit of rage. I completely agree with that, I've had that rage before in fact. But... training sort of allows you to remain calm and under control in similar situations because the hostilities are not as frightening our as foreign and your brain knows what to do on autopilot almost through countless repetition.
I still say the father did the right thing and his actions were totally excusable. And I do believe he was in a fit of blind rage.
I couldn't agree more, sounds like you've been more than one or two as have I. But now that I'm old and broken and put back together I'm going to try and take out the other guy in the three or 4 min that I've got and if past performance is any indicator in my youth I did better than 50% now being old and broken up I'm going to try my best to tilt the odds in my favor. As for the last post I couldn't agree more, I've seen black belts and boxers and bodybuilders alike all get taken apart by seemingly very mild guys but that's just the way things go sometimes, and having a buddy watch your back with a pool cue never hurts. Just my two cents.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I did,,, the day I got married; thank God the insanity is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Priceless! I'll have to share this with my sensei. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo