Thread: Whats your opinion on automatic weapons?

I remember Dirty Harry took out a bank robber with a .44 magnum in one hand & a hotdog in the other.
From across the busy city street.

That's right, training doesn't mean you will win in ANY given situation, however it does work or the police or military around the world wouldn't train. Heck, Navy SEALS get killed, albeit rarely, and they are some of the most trained & experienced in the world.

Those who aren't proficient with firearms will give the typical response "that couldn't or can't be done". That's as easy to spot as someone trying to say they are a pro-honer just because they have a new set of stones or someone trying to say they are a MMA/Ju-Jitsu expert just because they watched Ultimate fighter. A true pro-honer or martial artist will see thru it quicker than stink from a skunk & quickly let them know: "You don't know what you are talking about".

Again, I comfortably go to the theaters, mall, shopping center, or (insert place) here in Texas because I know that more than likely 5-10%+ of those folks there enjoying the same thing I am can and will react appropriately if a idiot tries to harm us or our families like that terrible tragedy in the movie theater. Remember...when the police arrived to take control of the situation, the bad buy was already outside (at his car IIRC) and the damage was done. It only takes about 2 seconds to lift my shirt, remove weapon, click off safety as I am aiming, ready to send a 180-230 grain chunk of diplomacy to it's intended target.

I'll take my chances with a 2 second response...you wanna reload for me?

Originally Posted by HNSB

Meh. I could have put one through his left eyeball from three blocks away while blindfolded in a pouring rain.

You left out the part about eating a donut whist doing all the above in the rain.

As for what Shooter said? I agree whole heartedly.

IF there was tear gas in that theater, I missed that. I recall hearing smoke bombs. As has been stated, the missing element in that scenario was CCW's.

When stuff gets REAL hot, it's fight or flight.

Some folks stand their ground or charge and others mess their pants.

I don't know what I'll do next time, but based on past performance and experience, I suspect I'll stand and deliver.

This thread is starting to sound like the one about WOW razors. Everyone thinking they have one and few even realize what one is.

Many years ago I spent a couple of weeks at a training facility undergoing what was called street survival. It was run by the U.S Marshal SWAT team at their base in Alexandria, Louisiana. For our final exam we were sent to an abandoned High School and we were dressed in riot gear, helmets, gas masks. We could hardly see or move. At the time we were still carrying revolvers. I had a Ruger Security Six .357. We were issued ammo which was a bullet replaced with a rubber tip and the primer only. (I still have scars from where I was hit). So, we as highly trained and experienced LEOs went in there and those guys were waiting for us. We had to clean them out. They were in every imaginable place someone could fit into. They threw smoke bombs at us, gas and opened up at us basically taking us all out. Our training meant squat. I can't imagine if it was the real thing with real bullets flying. You just go into panic mode.

So the moral of the story is anyone saying if they were in that theater they could have taken the guy out is living in another world. Also as I recall the Police Chief said if his guys had been there before the shooter left his officers would have been casualties too because their ammo would have bounced off the guy.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

This thread is starting to sound like the one about WOW razors. Everyone thinking they have one and few even realize what one is.

Many years ago I spent a couple of weeks at a training facility undergoing what was called street survival. It was run by the U.S Marshal SWAT team at their base in Alexandria, Louisiana. For our final exam we were sent to an abandoned High School and we were dressed in riot gear, helmets, gas masks. We could hardly see or move. At the time we were still carrying revolvers. I had a Ruger Security Six .357. We were issued ammo which was a bullet replaced with a rubber tip and the primer only. (I still have scars from where I was hit). So, we as highly trained and experienced LEOs went in there and those guys were waiting for us. We had to clean them out. They were in every imaginable place someone could fit into. They threw smoke bombs at us, gas and opened up at us basically taking us all out. Our training meant squat. I can't imagine if it was the real thing with real bullets flying. You just go into panic mode.

So the moral of the story is anyone saying if they were in that theater they could have taken the guy out is living in another world. Also as I recall the Police Chief said if his guys had been there before the shooter left his officers would have been casualties too because their ammo would have bounced off the guy.

I think you are correct, there are certain situations that , despite equipment, training, preparedness of any kind, are just not winnable. Just a sad fact of life. As LEO's, one of the basic principles we are taught in basic academy training is "the will to survive." Will to survive is driven into our heads just about everyday. So that even when the odds are against you, even if you are losing the fight, you don't give up - until you are dead. And I think that is the sentiment expressed here by several of the posters - we may loose the fight, but we are going down fighting. OTOH, if you can run away, GTFO!

Anyone remember this?

Two heavily armed and armored clowns with full auto .30 cals and not one death of anyone other than the clowns with full auto's.

It was sad day that folks got hurt, but amazingly no one was killed.

LOTS of mistakes made by the PD and the two A-holes that died over-estimated their abilities.

Actually, the moral of the story with the "kill house" set up at the school is that it was set up for you participants to fail. They knew where you were entering, numbers, weapons, and such...how was your intel?

The fight or flight comment is right on, some of us have it in us to fight and some have to bug out. Neither will understand the other, but we must accept it because it's just the way it is.

Originally Posted by Wullie

Anyone remember this?

Two heavily armed and armored clowns with full auto .30 cals and not one death of anyone other than the clowns with full auto's.

It was sad day that folks got hurt, but amazingly no one was killed.

LOTS of mistakes made by the PD and the two A-holes that died over-estimated their abilities.

This event, according to a friend in law enforcement is why the 40 cal was born to be preffered over the 9mm.

Then my 10mm should do the trick just fine then, they both have the same grips now...

Originally Posted by honedright

I think you are correct, there are certain situations that , despite equipment, training, preparedness of any kind, are just not winnable. Just a sad fact of life. As LEO's, one of the basic principles we are taught in basic academy training is "the will to survive." Will to survive is driven into our heads just about everyday. So that even when the odds are against you, even if you are losing the fight, you don't give up - until you are dead. And I think that is the sentiment expressed here by several of the posters - we may loose the fight, but we are going down fighting. OTOH, if you can run away, GTFO!

I had my initial Firearms training at the NYPD Academy and they used to recount the notion of how an LEO gets shot in the finger and he's down for the count and the bad guy gets shot 5 times and keeps fighting.