Thread: Australian court OKs logo ban on cigarette packs

Originally Posted by BobH

It is really getting idiotic in my not so humble opinion. Why don't they do the same for any consumer product that has the ability to induce disease and death in that case. It is so two faced in the way governments are handling this issue. Just be up front and ban the sale, production and importation of tobacco products and be done with it. Oh, I forgot the governments don't really want to give up the tax revenue. Schizo behaviour or what. Shakes head walks away.

Bob

2 reasons probably.

1) smoking cigs is addictive.
2) smoking is a widespread problem.

in the first case, it makes sense to counter the draw of addiction with an opposite force, like confrontaiton with the end results.
in the second case, the government is typically only addressing pressing problems. if straight razors caused problems for thousands of people on a daily basis, you can bet there would be laws governing them. If there are no problems, there won't be laws.

By the same token, the UK has draconian knife laws, because knife crime is a huge problem in the cities.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I can guarantee if you came out with a product with similar health risks like Tobacco or Alcohol the Govt would shut you down in quick order. However if you are a big corporation with lobbyists and lawyers and legislators in your pocket you can do just about anything with impunity.

Another angle is that alcohol and tobacco have always been part of society.
It's part of who we are. If alcohol would be introduced now, it would be treated like LSD probably.

Bruno

I understand all of what you are saying. I am a smoker and enough is enough with this type of legislation for me. It is legal to purchase and I pay my taxes so the governments can stop already. Either that or have the stones to ban it.

Bob

Personally I don't see the point. Apparently the issue is around new smokers - teenagers are, according to the government, stupid and barely literate (I guess the government should know - they are in charge of education) and are attracted to pretty, brightly coloured packages and labeling. They cannot help themselves but to want to buy a pretty package with cigarettes in it. So, by making the package non-pretty and non-labeled all our new cigarette smoker uptake problems are solved. Genius!

As others have mentioned, the courageous government should then, if consistency were the goal, turn its attention to the brightly coloured and trendy labeled alcoholic beverage industry. Excuse me while I burst into uncontrollable laughter....

Unfortunately consistency has nothing to do with politics and so we never get it in Governments. The real issue here is cheap political one-upmanship of a weak government (weak as in it is a minority government) overriding the ideas of individual civil liberties and the property rights of companies.

I have no love for cigarette companies, but if I were one I would be severely annoyed for many reasons, but especially that other "social drugs" like alcohol have not been treated in the same fashion - surely if the theory of packaging is true for cigarettes it must be true for alcohol? Apparently not - flashy labeling only attracts teens to cigarettes; it does nothing for them on bottles of alcohol.

I worry about our country.

James.

I have a nasty feeling that we are turning into a nation of wowsers down under. . I smoke a pipe and cigars. It is only a matter of time before we will not be able to buy tobacco over here. They banned the sale of snuff years ago.
The self righteous left is at it again. We are having more and more govt interference in our daily lives. It is done in such a way that when even an ordinary articulate citizen stands up over here and disagrees he appears a rightwing idiot. How do you balance the rights of the individual against the good of society as a whole? This is something I really ponder over, smoking is just one issue. At least you blokes resist strongly any govt interference, with more conviction than we do.
I agree any smoking is unhealthy, but it should be your own choice, so long as the information is out there and readily available to you. Guess cigarette cases will be back in fashion !!



Cheers

Heelerau

Originally Posted by heelerau

I have a nasty feeling that we are turning into a nation of wowsers down under. . I smoke a pipe and cigars. It is only a matter of time before we will not be able to buy tobacco over here. They banned the sale of snuff years ago.
The self righteous left is at it again. We are having more and more govt interference in our daily lives. It is done in such a way that when even an ordinary articulate citizen stands up over here and disagrees he appears a rightwing idiot. How do you balance the rights of the individual against the good of society as a whole? This is something I really ponder over, smoking is just one issue. At least you blokes resist strongly any govt interference, with more conviction than we do.
I agree any smoking is unhealthy, but it should be your own choice, so long as the information is out there and readily available to you. Guess cigarette cases will be back in fashion !!



Cheers

Heelerau

Heelerau --
It isn't just happening in your home. Michigan is exactly the same way lately.
If I may attempt a response to your query "How do you balance the rights of the individual against the good of society as a whole?" Without individuals there can be no group. By definition, a group is two or more "ones". Thus, individual liberties must be of paramount importance, or else the collective well-being of the group will ultimately fail.

In some countries I have been to and including my own the anti smoking movement has long since accomplished about all it can do without making smokers feel persecuted. But like almost all such movements it has now got a life of it's own and refuses to die. If I opened a bar and it was for smokers only, that is after having the staff sign wavers so you don't get close on occupational health violations, how long would it take for non smokers to scream discrimination? Yet non smoking establishments have their blessing.

Like most movement started for good reason they just seem to go on and on and on long after there is a practical reason to do so. That is unless the ultimate goal is not a reasonable and balanced out come. In that case just ban it and all these people can go and find another cause to rally around to give their life some meaning. Yea, I am just a little ticked off.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

In some countries I have been to and including my own the anti smoking movement has long since accomplished about all it can do without making smokers feel persecuted. But like almost all such movements it has now got a life of it's own and refuses to die. If I opened a bar and it was for smokers only, that is after having the staff sign wavers so you don't get close on occupational health violations, how long would it take for non smokers to scream discrimination? Yet non smoking establishments have their blessing.

Like most movement started for good reason they just seem to go on and on and on long after there is a practical reason to do so. That is unless the ultimate goal is not a reasonable and balanced out come. In that case just ban it and all these people can go and find another cause to rally around to give their life some meaning. Yea, I am just a little ticked off.

Bob

Bob --
what you are describing is bureaucracy in action. they become self-perpetuating. Take for example the Republican party in America: it was created to end slavery in the States, yet it continues to exist almost 150 years after the American Civil War ended!

Originally Posted by mjsorkin

Money to be made in cigarette cases.

Michael

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Personally I don't see the point. Apparently the issue is around new smokers - teenagers are, according to the government, stupid and barely literate (I guess the government should know - they are in charge of education) and are attracted to pretty, brightly coloured packages and labeling. They cannot help themselves but to want to buy a pretty package with cigarettes in it. So, by making the package non-pretty and non-labeled all our new cigarette smoker uptake problems are solved. Genius!

As others have mentioned, the courageous government should then, if consistency were the goal, turn its attention to the brightly coloured and trendy labeled alcoholic beverage industry. Excuse me while I burst into uncontrollable laughter....

Unfortunately consistency has nothing to do with politics and so we never get it in Governments. The real issue here is cheap political one-upmanship of a weak government (weak as in it is a minority government) overriding the ideas of individual civil liberties and the property rights of companies.

I have no love for cigarette companies, but if I were one I would be severely annoyed for many reasons, but especially that other "social drugs" like alcohol have not been treated in the same fashion - surely if the theory of packaging is true for cigarettes it must be true for alcohol? Apparently not - flashy labeling only attracts teens to cigarettes; it does nothing for them on bottles of alcohol.

I worry about our country.

James.

Originally Posted by heelerau

I have a nasty feeling that we are turning into a nation of wowsers down under. . I smoke a pipe and cigars. It is only a matter of time before we will not be able to buy tobacco over here. They banned the sale of snuff years ago.
The self righteous left is at it again. We are having more and more govt interference in our daily lives. It is done in such a way that when even an ordinary articulate citizen stands up over here and disagrees he appears a rightwing idiot. How do you balance the rights of the individual against the good of society as a whole? This is something I really ponder over, smoking is just one issue. At least you blokes resist strongly any govt interference, with more conviction than we do.
I agree any smoking is unhealthy, but it should be your own choice, so long as the information is out there and readily available to you. Guess cigarette cases will be back in fashion !!



Cheers

Heelerau

Originally Posted by BobH

In some countries I have been to and including my own the anti smoking movement has long since accomplished about all it can do without making smokers feel persecuted. But like almost all such movements it has now got a life of it's own and refuses to die. If I opened a bar and it was for smokers only, that is after having the staff sign wavers so you don't get close on occupational health violations, how long would it take for non smokers to scream discrimination? Yet non smoking establishments have their blessing.

Like most movement started for good reason they just seem to go on and on and on long after there is a practical reason to do so. That is unless the ultimate goal is not a reasonable and balanced out come. In that case just ban it and all these people can go and find another cause to rally around to give their life some meaning. Yea, I am just a little ticked off.

Bob

Governments seem to exist to only get in a mans way ! What the hell is taking that solar flare so long to happen....sheesh !!