Thread: Flying a plane - my first flight lesson

A VLS certification is supposedly half the cost of a regular private pilot. If all you want to do is go up and fly around now and then that might be a good solution.

DO yourself a favor. Find something like this to learn to fly in.

Piper PA-22-108 "Colt".

They are an absolute HOOT to fly! NO flaps, no differential braking, just a bare bones flying machine. Known as a "short wing" Piper. They can be spun, but you have to work EXTREMELY hard to spin it. I tried five or six times before I got it to spin very lazily one afternoon.

The planes are as honest as the day is long, they have no bad habits and are pretty economical to operate.

Piper PA-22 108 Colt - Performance Data

Horsepower: 108 Gross Weight: 1650 lbs
Top Speed: 104 kts Empty Weight: 940 lbs
Cruise Speed: 94 kts Fuel Capacity: 36 gal
Stall Speed (dirty): 47 kts Range: 415 nm

Takeoff Landing
Ground Roll: 950 ft Ground Roll 500 ft
Over 50 ft obstacle: 1500 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 1250 ft

Rate Of Climb: 610 fpm
Ceiling: 12000 ft

Bigspendur - what's a VLS certification?

That Piper Colt is awesome!! The flight school actually has one of them, but I think it was out the day I went. Thanks for all the tips and pointers guys, appreciate it!!

GIve it a shot. Tube and rag flying is great fun!

I got a kick out the spec's I copied

Stall Speed (dirty): 47 kts

AS it has fixed gear, no flaps, no cowl flaps, nor speed brakes, I'm wondering if they had the window open to make it (dirty) or had they been playing in the mud?

Skip over to about the 5:00 mark in this vid.


And watch the guy slip that bird. Those things will descend at 1000FPM like that. You can hear and feel the prop tip vortices drumming on the side of the plane. I used to get the one I flew into and out of fileds that C-150's and such wouldn't dare. They are fun little planes, ESPECIALLY with one person and about half fuel.

I too am wondering what VLS certs are. I recall hearing something about a sport plane license or some such, but if I recall, it was strictly solo, daytime VFR. I've been out of the loop too long to say for sure.

It sounds similar to a sport. As you said, those are daytime solo vfr only. There's also an aircraft weight restriction, 1500lbs I think

yes, very light sport. A cheap ticket if you just want to "fly". Many restrictions. 2000lb gross limit, engine size I think 100hp max (most are around 80) fixed wheels, 2 seats, daytime only, VFR only and a few others. Diamond katana, Aerospool Dynamic are two that meet the requirements.

If you can find one still operating a piper cub is about the purest form of flight.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

If you can find one still operating a piper cub is about the purest form of flight.

LOTS of 'em out there from J-3's up to PA-18's ( Super Cubs ). They ain't cheap. ( even though they ought to be ) They are fun and you can do a LOT with one IF you have your ducks in a row.

Last Cub I flew was originally built in 1943 for Bevo Howard. It stared life with a 65HP engine, now it has a 350HP hot rodded Lycoming, clipped wings with a Taylorcraft airfoil ( because CUB wings have flat bottom airfoil and don't do well flying inverted), full aerobatic oil and fuel system, a smoke system, and "bass boat" seats. It would get airborne in about three or four plane lengths and climb nearly straight up. It would also put you to sleep quicker than any damn plane I ever sat in when you started pulling serious G's. Something about being wadded up and folded in half just sit in it I think.

Originally Posted by Wullie

LOTS of 'em out there from J-3's up to PA-18's ( Super Cubs ). They ain't cheap. ( even though they ought to be ) They are fun and you can do a LOT with one IF you have your ducks in a row.

Last Cub I flew was originally built in 1943 for Bevo Howard. It stared life with a 65HP engine, now it has a 350HP hot rodded Lycoming, clipped wings with a Taylorcraft airfoil ( because CUB wings have flat bottom airfoil and don't do well flying inverted), full aerobatic oil and fuel system, a smoke system, and "bass boat" seats. It would get airborne in about three or four plane lengths and climb nearly straight up. It would also put you to sleep quicker than any damn plane I ever sat in when you started pulling serious G's. Something about being wadded up and folded in half just sit in it I think.

Most of the cubs they put the big engines in don't really fly any faster then the stock engines. The airframe just has limitations. yea start messing with the wings you can hotrod the plane but that usually comes at a price of stability.

I bet it still takes a hefty amount of right rudder to keep it straight on the runway

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Most of the cubs they put the big engines in don't really fly any faster then the stock engines. The airframe just has limitations. yea start messing with the wings you can hotrod the plane but that usually comes at a price of stability.

We didn't hang that big engine out there for speed. We hung it on that plane so it would act like a helicopter. You could point it straight up and hang it off the prop. It was built with clipped wings for aerobatics, hence it also had the T-craft semi symmetrical airfoil. Stability? That punk was solid as rock in any attitude you had the balls to fly it in. It was faster but not a lot as you stated.

I've flown 220HP Stearmans and 450-HP Stearmans. Same deal. A Stearman will only go so fast. However, one with a 450 HP Pratt & Whitney will damn sure out perform the 220HP version as far as carrying a load and getting it off the ground. Burns a lot more gas too. No free lunches in aviation. Stability? ROCK FUGGIN SOLID!

Hanging bigger engines on planes usually results in a loss of agility due to weight increase. For example the BF-109's ultimate "knife fighter" version was the F model. It had less HP and a smaller engine than the later G's and K's. The G's and K's were faster and would climb better, but they would not turn like the F's. Gunther Rall ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Rall ) had to be ordered to turn in his beloved F model for re-work to a G. He was never as happy with the G's.

Ken you are right, when you cobbed it to that punk you pretty well had to stand on the rudder. It took off nearly as good at half to two thirds throttle as did with full throttle and was a LOT easier to keep it pointed in the right direction.