Thread: New Chinese Leadership

Todays human nature,in todays society no longer exsists as was orig intended.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Todays human nature,in todays society no longer exsists as was orig intended.

I disagree. If you ask me, there never was an original intention. Our trump card seems to have been our flexible adaptability from the start, although you could say that we are best adapted to a hunter-gatherer existence (that was the 'general state' we were in the longest). That is no glamorous society though. Hunter-gatherer societies often wage brutal warfare against each other, and an average person does not live very long.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Not that I am a fan of the Castro regime, because I am not. But the fact that we won't normalize trade with Cuba because they are a communist country but we'll do biz with China, Viet Nam ...... talk about hypocrisy.

Well, if you pull the covers back far enough you might find that American companies are doing business in Cuba through the back door. Plenty of western countries do business with Cuba and it is not too much of a stretch of the imagination that things are done through third parties. Again not normalizing trade with Cuba could be mostly for domestic consumption. This may or may not be the case but life has taught me to be a cynic and a lot of things are just smoke and mirrors.

Bob

My thoughts:

So Bruno mentioned that China thinks long-term where the "West" doesn't. You know what - I'll agree. Moreover, right now I would say there might actually be a kind of quiet understanding amongst Chinese that they are going to dominate.

But China is changing rapidly. And I honestly don't know how long the mindset will last. Moreover, I don't know if the externalities of a nation with so many people moving into the first world is going to allow the "normal" progression we have seen in the past. The shear amount of pollution created may and hopefully will, create new ways of thinking.

Never mind the issue of so many of its male citizens who will need to find females in other nations if they intend to procreate. The difference in genders is and will be even more staggering in the future than it is now. It's going to force Chinese to "branch out."

That's all to say that with respect to government, I think that right now - this time around, sure maybe the old status quo will work - but I highly doubt it will work next go. Just saying.

As for China allowing US firms the right to do as they wish if they look the other way with respect to human rights - that's not completely true. As an example (and something I know will kill Glen and his views on tariffs lol), if GM want's to make a car in China fine. The company is not allowed to import them. Moreover, GM has to build the plant, share the R&D AND give a % of the plant to the government. It's lop-sided and the reason they are getting all our technology. We are giving it to them! But I guess we have to - what a market! We want in! It's going to suck when the Chinese finally learn enough and don't need us anymore...

Originally Posted by earcutter

As for China allowing US firms the right to do as they wish if they look the other way with respect to human rights - that's not completely true. As an example (and something I know will kill Glen and his views on tariffs lol), if GM want's to make a car in China fine. The company is not allowed to import them. Moreover, GM has to build the plant, share the R&D AND give a % of the plant to the government. It's lop-sided and the reason they are getting all our technology. We are giving it to them! But I guess we have to - what a market! We want in! It's going to suck when the Chinese finally learn enough and don't need us anymore...

The foreign companies get zero dollar leases, cheap workforce, zero regulations,... China even goes so far as to build complete highways for free. Everything to draw in the companies. The stories I've heard when colleagues of mine helped Philips and LG move their setup to China are unbelievable. Sure, they'll take as well, but they'll not hinder you as long as you avoid politics.

And as I said, they think in decades and centuries, while wescompanies only look to the next quarter.

The same is true for students. My brother teaches computer science at Belgium's most prestigious university. He has many Chinese students who barely speak English, yet they're there to try to graduate. China sends students all over the world in large quantities in order to get educated, and then go back to China. It usually sucks for the students, because the pressure and stress levels are enormous. But they know that it is their shot at success, and China doesn't care about suicide numbers or ruined lives. If they fail, there're more where they came from.

Originally Posted by Bruno

The foreign companies get zero dollar leases, cheap workforce, zero regulations,... China even goes so far as to build complete highways for free. Everything to draw in the companies. The stories I've heard when colleagues of mine helped Philips and LG move their setup to China are unbelievable. Sure, they'll take as well, but they'll not hinder you as long as you avoid politics.

And as I said, they think in decades and centuries, while wescompanies only look to the next quarter.

The same is true for students. My brother teaches computer science at Belgium's most prestigious university. He has many Chinese students who barely speak English, yet they're there to try to graduate. China sends students all over the world in large quantities in order to get educated, and then go back to China. It usually sucks for the students, because the pressure and stress levels are enormous. But they know that it is their shot at success, and China doesn't care about suicide numbers or ruined lives. If they fail, there're more where they came from.

Oh I see what you are saying - ok. Yeah, and it's spooky isn't it?

The University I go to has a program with China and some University's out there as well. Our student's go out there every semester and they say the same thing. I have never gone. But the stories are kind of spooky really.

Kind of makes you wonder about free trade agreements as they usually have clauses about countries unfairly subsidizing industries. You would think zero dollar leases would be a big no no. The softwood lumber dispute between Canada and the US is a prime example. Free trade only works on a level playing field and so far it has only been an up hill battle that the west has lost. To compete with what China has to offer business you would have to have a lifestyle like they do. Anyone up for that? I didn't think so.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Kind of makes you wonder about free trade agreements as they usually have clauses about countries unfairly subsidizing industries. You would think zero dollar leases would be a big no no. The softwood lumber dispute between Canada and the US is a prime example. Free trade only works on a level playing field and so far it has only been an up hill battle that the west has lost. To compete with what China has to offer business you would have to have a lifestyle like they do. Anyone up for that? I didn't think so.

Bob

To be fair, all countries do this to some degree.
Airbus and boeing constantly complain about the other company getting unfair advantages.
Boeing gets zero percent interest loans, to be repaid at undefined times. Airbus gets subsidizing.

The Chinese abide more or less by the free trade rules when they need to. For the rest, they give companies as much rope as they want to hang themselves. It's not even the fault of the Chinese imo. If shareholders wanted it differently, they shouldn't put greedy scumbags at the helm of large enterprises with their eyes fized solely at the end of the fiscal quarter.

Shareholders are shooting themselves in the foot en masse. The Chinese are just happy to supply bullets, but the shareholders are the ones shooting.

Well, Bruno I am going to have to agree with you. Welcome to the new virulent form of capitalism we have today, glasses to correct for short sightedness not supplied. Sooner or later the house of cards will collapse.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Welcome to the new virulent form of capitalism we have today

There's nothing new about it. The only difference between now and any other time is that there are places open to do business that never were before, and some other places where doing business is no longer a good idea (like venezuela or some places in africa).