Thread: Assault weopen carnage agian?

Originally Posted by BobH

With so many problems that contribute to the final outcome of yesterday's tragedy both sides get bogged down on only one of the numerous problems. Until both sides can get past the fixation on guns you ain't gonna get anywhere near reducing these incidences. Do you really want to attempt to stop the continuous cycle of grieving over these tragedies or just keep on arguing your pet peeve/solution solely centered on guns? There is so much more going on than that one point.

Bob

One half mile from where I live two guys went into a restaurant right before closing and murdered three women who worked there for $120.00 that was in the cash register. They were caught because one of the two was so pleased with himself that he bragged to a friend about it. His friend apparently didn't think it was anything to be proud of and turned him in.

A little less than one half mile from where I live two guys went into a convenience store and , though the two clerks were completely cooperative with them, the security camera shows them killing them execution style. They were also caught doing a drive by gang related shooting and the murder weapon was determined to be the same. Unfortunately none of these perpetrators got the death penalty they so richly deserve.

Point being, I carry a gun to protect myself. I would give the guns up if I didn't live in the wild west, figuratively speaking. We aren't all playing with the same deck of cards and you people that may live in a more civilized environment may not understand the pressures of living in or close by 'the hood.'

Are incidents of this kind an acceptable trade off for maintaining this particular civil right.

Originally Posted by Jeltz

Are incidents of this kind an acceptable trade off for maintaining this particular civil right.

NOTHING that can be legislated will stop a determined individual from accomplishing whatever he/she/they decide they want to do. The fact is that EVERYTHING that young man did yesterday was illegal.

So now the argument is "let's make it harder" for them to accomplish their chosen task? Why not take away cars from everyone because a few people drive drunk? What's the difference? The last numbers I saw for Texas stated that over 2.700 people have been killed THIS YEAR! I'd say that is a very big problem. That is more than have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, yet I see no outcry about traffic deaths.

If you'll look aside from the current issue, maybe you can understand that our Bill of Rights was written to protect the citizens from an oppressive government the likes of which the colonies had just finished a war to break away from and that you are currently living under the government ( I realize that England's government is not the same as it was then but is a direct result of what it was then) that brought about our Bill of Rights.

Perhaps you like having cameras watching your every move and paying taxes to support such entities. Maybe you don't or maybe you're so accustomed to it that it isn't an issue to you. Doesn't matter to me. I do NOT look forward to that kind of intrusive BS in my life.

I'm not trying to "poke back" nor start a disagreement. The fact is that the US has been going down a different path until fairly recently when SOMEBODY decided we needed to hard turn left.

Personally, I'd rather be responsible for myself.

Originally Posted by Wullie

So now the argument is "let's make it harder" for them to accomplish their chosen task? Why not take away cars from everyone because a few people drive drunk? What's the difference? The last numbers I saw for Texas stated that over 2.700 people have been killed THIS YEAR! I'd say that is a very big problem. That is more than have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, yet I see no outcry about traffic deaths.




I'm not trying to "poke back" nor start a disagreement. The fact is that the US has been going down a different path until fairly recently when SOMEBODY decided we needed to hard turn left.

Wullie - You should know by the amount of likes I give you lol, that I love 99% of the things you say so take this for what it is - a mere difference of opinion.

The part of your statement I highlighted I have a real problem with. I find it flawed logic. Comparing motor vehicles and guns just can't be done. In my opinion. Motor vehicles provide an economic good that pales any kind of economic good the sales of arms provides to society. Motor vehicles provide a utility that serves all Americans. Weapons can't claim that.

An automobile's externalitys... those things that are bad when used incorrectly, are unfortunate side effects. A guns "externalitys" are its purpose - and that is too kill.

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society. A guns is questionable.


As for the "SOMEBODY" who decided to turn left... yup! That would be over 50% of Americans.

Just saying...

Originally Posted by earcutter

Wullie - You should know by the amount of likes I give you lol, that I love 99% of the things you say so take this for what it is - a mere difference of opinion.

The part of your statement I highlighted I have a real problem with. I find it flawed logic. Comparing motor vehicles and guns just can't be done. In my opinion. Motor vehicles provide an economic good that pales any kind of economic good the sales of arms provides to society. Motor vehicles provide a utility that serves all Americans. Weapons can't claim that.

An automobile's externalitys... those things that are bad when used incorrectly, are unfortunate side effects. A guns "externalitys" are its purpose - and that is too kill.

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society. A guns is questionable.


As for the "SOMEBODY" who decided to turn left... yup! That would be over 50% of Americans.

Just saying...

David, I respect and enjoy your input as well.

I'm kind of on the same page with EXCEPT a gun's purpose is not strictly to kill. I have used guns in the past to protect myself without firing a shot. I was fully prepared to but it wan't necessary as the offending persons saw it my way. I own and have owned a bunch of rifles and pistols that were made for nothing more than launching a projectile at a piece of paper. They would be very unwieldy and pretty much useless as "killing" devices. I can also say that with more guns in the hands of private citizens than we have people in this country that the actual rate of firearm mortality is extremely low. We can nit pick that to death and still not get anywhere. All I'm trying to illustrate is the knee jerk reaction to GUNS when something deplorable like this latest incident happens and the current administration's predictable use of this to get what they've wanted for along time, that being disarmament of the populace.

What it boils down to in my mind is that part of the country wants me to give up something they don't have or care about. The other part that scares me even worse is the fact that so far, collectively the private citizens, out number and out gun the current government. With all the new control regulations being implemented nationwide, ( TSA, VYPR check points on our roadways, use of the military in violation of the now defunct Posse commitatus act by the NDAA, willful destruction of our dollar, the army preparing for massive civil unrest etc etc) there may come a time when those that cried wolf will scream for help. I pray every night that will never happen.

Think about this. The country is basically only three days away from anarchy. A strong solar flare could take down the grid for years. Grocery stores have approximately three days of food at any point in time. Imagine this country with no electricity for a couple of weeks. It won't be fun nor will it be pretty.

So let's give up our stuff. Uncle Sam will be there, just like they were for New Orleans and New York.

I'll pass.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."

- Adolf Hitler

It's kind of weird because I am VERY pro-gun. Moreover, I am with Glen - it's an American's right, not a privilege.

It's scale that I kind of have a problem with. Maybe efficiency would be a better term.

If you look at stats it's something between 2 to 3 shots when there is an altercation. Anyone who has shot, also knows that after that, hiding or running is probably a better solution lol! But I don't want to get too bogged down with what-if scenario's that do nothing but foster a bunch of Rambo want to be's day dreams of zombie... Moreover, I don't buy into needing these type of weapons to keep the government in order. In today's America, only a military force can do that.

I think 99% of the American public would be well served with a six gun, a shotgun, and a good bolt action/lever-gun. I know I would be fine with that - though I love my semi's and would miss them.

I don't understand the need for weapons designed to kill on mass, or used to provide a wall of lead that is 90% inefficient in the public forum. But that's just me and take that for what it is... a dude who's lived in one of the most violent society's in the western hemisphere - Kingston Jamaica.

What a dump!! I hope America never becomes like that!

Originally Posted by earcutter

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society.

Vehicles are not purposed to kill, yet they do, and that is acceptable as long society benefits from vehicles.

I don't see any reason not to apply that same logic to guns.

Originally Posted by honedright

Vehicles are not purposed to kill, yet they do, and that is acceptable as long society benefits from vehicles.

I don't see any reason not to apply that same logic to guns.

Ok think of it this way.

Do you honestly think America would fall apart if all guns were removed from society?

Now were you take every motor vehicle out... in today's world, it would see us in the dark ages.

Not trying to be rude - just think about it.

Originally Posted by earcutter

Ok think of it this way.

Do you honestly think America would fall apart if all guns were removed from society?

Now were you take every motor vehicle out... in today's world, it would see us in the dark ages.

Not trying to be rude - just think about it.

I think you are presenting a false dichotomy.

Are either guns, or vehicles, the sole factors holding America together? I doubt it. So your question is misleading, but not rude.

The purpose of a vehicle, generally, is to transport someone, or something, from point A to point B.

And the purpose of a gun is to ignite a measured charge and send a projectile rapidly down and out of a barrel.

How those objectives are carried out, and the resulting consequences of any abuse or misjudgement, is completely up to, and is the responsibility of, the person controlling either device. That's my opinion.