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As a new member, I'm shocked at the blatant bias and rough treatment by moderators of senior members. Shouldn't the moderators be neutral, and just moderate? Or does the moderators' bias reflect uppper management's thinking? Is there a place for "off topic" discussion here at all? Perhaps the moderators should be prohibited from participating in the discussions alltogether, and avoid a conflict of interest entirely?
It does not reflect on the "management". First, its a bad and very unique example, rather unusual for us, but an occasional issue for every forum.
I personally find the "Off Topic" forum to be a little, well off topic.
You have a valid point on the moderation issue, but I think as a forum we all learned a valuable lesson all at once, there wasn't much learning curve for the moderators, who rarely need to practice thier craft in here.
I will admit that we haven't had the best of luck in the past with moderators, but they also deserve the chance to learn from their actions. Just like the rest of us.
I must have missed something, though from the sound of it I'm glad I did.
We are reviewing our procedures and are approach to the recent threads that have been closed. Closing a thread of any kind is the last thing we want to do here at SRP. I am hesitant to discuss anything further because we are still coming up with a better game plan for future issues that may occur.
well, I'm as willing to forgive as the next guy. But maybe the "moderators" ought not to jointhe discussion at all, since there is certainly a conflict at work when they have both the power of censure and the freedom to join the "dialogue"..
Or maybe the moderators oughtr to be elected?
I moderate at a couple of DE forums. My job is to keep the peace and help uphold the forum decorum. I'm allowed to participate since I am first a member. Mods are entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to express them. That's what makes a forum a true forum. It they were paid for their services, I might agree that opinions should not be expressed, but since they work for free, disallowing their opinions would defeat the purpose for being here. Yes, what happened is rare here, happens at other forums, and totally got out of line. I'm not disappointed in the moderators. I'm disappointed with everyone involved in the conflict, including the participating moderators. This is a place to come and have fun, and to talk about straight razor shaving. We all should be gentleman enough to moderate ourselves. Unfortunately, that has proven to not be the case.
RT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
I appreciate your input, I have brought this thread to the admin's attention. One thing you must keep in mind as you are relatively new, is that this is the first time anything like this has happened here at SRP. The moderators involved and the admin's as a whole are dealing with this issue I assure you.
Thanks Guys,
The only reason, I stepped in was that the action resulting from these threads spilled over and was disruptive and destructive to the forum beyond the threads. As this was a first of it's kind and involved Moderators, we want to be sure going forward that we do our best to present the best razor information available and maintain the open babershop conversation we have had all along.
Lynn
I'd like to say that I enjoy the site thoroughly, and all the member posts...and the striaght razor shave, most of all!!!
...but deleting the "off topic" section entirely would be a sad thing...no?
That has not even been brought up as an option nor could I imagine this happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
Yesterday was definately a sad day for SRP.
In my 11 months coming here, nothing like
this has ever happened. I hope that it
doesn't happen again.
Terry
We are focusing all of our resources to make sure that nothing like this happens again, it was definitely a wake up call for all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by wvbias
I have to say, and this is my opinion of course, but it seems to me that certain moderators (and sometimes regular members, to be fair) tend to strongly dominate discussions when they get involved. They also tend to change the tone of the discussions, and not always for the better. I know this can't be avoided in a free forum, but shouldn't moderators, be a bit more....moderate?
My 2 cents,
Scott
what was so sad? I think it was a good, healthy debate...what was sad was that it was stopped...and when it was stopped...
I'm assuming we're all big boys and have our emotions mostly in check.
Let the the least rational and most hysterical show themselves.
Religion and politics are what did it.
Avoid these two topics and all should
go well.
Just my thoughts. I have taken part
in these discussions in the past, but
never again.
Terry
..In my opinion, the "moderator(s) in this case should simply be blown out, for lack of "moderation". "Problem" solved.
I agree that moderators have the right and even obligation to express themselves here, but it is also especially dutiful to do so on the very best behaviour. They are representatives of the site and should be trying to resolve conflict wherever they post, not insite it. If a member is going off track, then they have the authority to try and quell it.
This is rare for SRP and I'm glad about that. I hope procedures can be put into place to make it nearly impossible. I love this place and would hate to see what I love about it slowly ruin as it appears to have on other sites.
X
"Moderators" have the right and obligation to express themselves?
Am I nuts, or what? They have neither the right nor the obligation to express their personal bias... and that what opinion is, isn't it?
It seems to me that a "moderator" ought to ensure neutality and fairness in a debate or dialogue...and would be loathe to reveal his personal bias, as it would be a fault in a moderator.
Hey, I'd love to get rid of the censors alltogether...or at least agree on public terms of censorship..after all this is the internet, isn't it?
Maybe "moderator" is the wrong term then. When the different forums were set up people were selected by who had experience in the different topics and while part of their job may have been to "moderate" I think it was more to advise or oversee to ensure threads stayed on topic and to help ensure lively discussion.
While in a true debate type forum a moderator must be 100% neutral this is not what this was meant to be. Here at least we have a bias....to respect what Lynn has set up and to ensure it's success by not letting negative things happen that would deter others from joining us and to ensure our presence on the web is a positive experience for people looking for information. For the most part we police ourselves but if people get out of hand, members or moderators then someone needs to step in.
We are all guests in Lynn's house, he is a tolerant guys who lets us get away with lots but when push comes to shove it is still HIS house and we need to respect that.
Tony
That was not a good, healthy debate. That was a spewing of bile that became waaay too personal, rather than what it was supposed to be about. The only good thing is that it was stopped, and the bad thing was that it was allowed to go on as long as it did. That thread only served to exacerbate hard feelings, or create them. There were some good points made on both sides, but they were hard to find between the namecalling and rigidity of opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
does that mean we are to avoind hurt feelings at all costs? Even at the expense of truth...or maybe that's another sensitive subject, too sensitive. C'Mon ...we're all grownups, aren't we?
We're straight razor shavers, for God's sake...let's stop being so squeemish..
BTW...I enjoy your posts especially, Joe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
Squeamishness, hurt feelings, sensitivity...these are all beside the point. This is a public forum, and a certain amount of decorum is expected. I might think a thing, but does it serve anyone if I demand that my opinion be respected, while excoriating someone else for theirs? I believe absolutely in honesty, and people don't have the right to go through life without being offended, but there's a way to convey your thoughts where you can say what's on your mind without trying to humiliate somone else. We are straight shavers, and that's what this forum is about. Hot-button topics are best avoided except with good friends and family. I consider a few guys on here my friends, and lots of friendly acquaintances. I'd like to keep them, so I discuss religion and politics only in a very peripheral way, although I'm passionate about both. That passion interferes with my objectivity, as it does with most people, so I feel they're better left alone. This forum is about those finer things that separate us from the average Joe...our appreciation of fine wines, beers, cigars, knives, guns (outside the legal issues surrounding them :D). We can discuss those things without being "metrosexual":roflmao So much of the world, and particularly America, is consumed with who's "right" and "wrong"...this place is a refuge to talk about the finer things. When ugliness and discourtesy rears its ugly head, it should be stamped down or directed to where it's appropriate. This is a society of gentlemen, and IMO we should conduct ourselves that way. There absolutely will be disagreement and friction, but it's up to each and every one of us (and the mods when we can't) to limit its reach and scope, and keep things civil. That thread, while perfectly appropriate in the off-topic forum where it was held, just got too heated and uncivilized. People stopped providing reasoned opinion and fact, and began attacking one another in the basest way possible. Lynn started this site (and forgive me for putting words in your mouth, Lynn) with the idea that it should be fun and informative, not a playground for verbal combat (that's what chat is for :D). If it ain't fun, what's the point? Again, truth is its own reward, but it's best served with sugar, rather than grit.
This is Lynn's forum, and as such, he is "in charge" of what is allowed here. What you are suggesting would only lead to anarchy. Followed by the exodus of/lack of participation of members. If you favor a forum with such "freedom", then I suggest you create and run it. I think it would be interesting to see how long it would remain a community. Members won't remain where they don't feel welcome and enjoy the atmosphere. In my time here, I've seen disagreements, but nothing on this level. Yes, it got personal and offensive, and we see the results that were generated. When you join a forum that someone is providing for you for free, in principle, you are agreeing to abide by whatever rules of conduct they choose to administer. Yes, this is the internet, but hosting this forum is not free. The one thing that is free is our decision to participate or not participate. Personally, I choose to ignore threads regarding government, politics and religion. I never actually read through the thread in question until late last night. Now I wish I had not read it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
RT
Guys,
One of the areas that I like is the "Off Topic". You learn more about the members when they start expressing themselves about thing other than razors. Perhaps, since there appears to be several Mods that cover each area, that there be an agreement among the mods as to whom will join in and whom will moderate.
Being so new, one thing you may not realize is that this is more than a forum, we are like friends and extended family here. We get upset when a member of someones family is in the hospital and we get worried when one loses his job. We donate money to gifts for friends that get married and send financial support to charities and grieve with the family of those friends who have passed on. This forum is not just another stop on the internet, and it is not built like any other forum that I have seen. Having a family atmosephere can lead to tension, and as our family grows so quickly, at times tensions grow as well. We are growing with the forum, watching it change, we are adapting as needed, but we learn from example and mistakes like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
This is the most member policed forum I have ever seen and we like to keep it that way, however not at the risk of hurting other members. While we don't want to punish the masses for the actions of a few, we also cannot ignore those actions. We realize we owe it to the forum and our friends to ensure that we keep the majority happy. It is nice to have a fresh voice like yours, and it may do you well to learn some more about the forums and the closeness of our members to better understand the community you have joined.
Dear Lynn,
It seems this is your site...and you prescribe the rules.
I bought a razor from you, and it was expertly honed, thank you.
As it seems you are ultimate arbiter on this site..could you please be clear on your policy? Your "moderators" are clearly conflicted in their responsibilities..
Could you just tell us clearly what goes and what doesn't? Even if it's just opinion...at least it will be out in the open.
how are the moderators chosen?
If you participate in a lot of forums you already know that threads get closed for many reasons, but most commonly for rule infractions or lack of good common sense in the conduct department.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
We haven't had the need to close more than a handful here. Basically the site has pretty much been self-moderating... our membership showing good judgment and basically policing themselves. I would hope that continues, because that is one of the things that differentiates us from other sites.
The 2nd Amend thread was closed because several participants (both members and moderators) demonstrated lack of appropriate conduct. Posts became increasingly mean spirited and showed basic disrespect and courtesy. I think most members would agree there's no place for that in a public forum such as ours. Attempts to get things calmed down via off-line channels were being ignored by the participants... and so the thread was closed. It's unfortunate that such action was necessary since a few participants effectively ruined the thread for everyone. But life is like that sometimes.
Stigmata, perhaps you're expressing your feelings about "moderators" based on ideas and experiences you've had on other sites. But here the culture is that moderators have the right to express themselves and participate... they're members like everyone else in that regard. The unfortunate incident in the 2nd Amendment thread was that some Moderators didn't take the high road in the discussion and let their emotions get out of control. We're only human, but as such we have to bear the consequences of our actions.
Moderators are purely voluntary at SRP and are primarily chartered with assisting others where possible, stimulating discussion, etc. Several Moderators are assigned to specific groups... most float amongst all the groups. And except for a few and minor instances, they have never had to quell unruly behavior until yesterday.
I would hope that you allow yourself the opportunity to observe the culture here for a while before you decide to tell us how things should be done... you may discover they don't really need to be changed.
One thing I've learned in my short time here is just what Josh mentioned, that this community has a family atmosphere. I truly admire the way that most members interact with each other, care for each other, support each other, etc. It's one of the main reasons I continue to come back.
I've come to learn that most of the moderators are dedicated to this site and its members and conduct themselves as gentlemen. (I say most only because I don't know all of them) I choose to trust that they will make wise decisions regarding recent events.
Let me just say thanks to Lynn and the others who are working hard to keep a balance between the freedom to be us and the responsibility to keep us civil.
Rick, no one said anything about doing away with the off-topic forum to my knowledge... where did that idea come from? You're the second person to imply that was a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickw
BS...pure, unadultereated BS. Forget about it...I don't even believe whaqt you haave to say about straight razors...nausea....Christ, I hope there is someone else on earth who can hone a razor...I'll have to learn for myself..
There are few other forums that you can check out which feature straight razor shaving, although I do not know that many of them will let you speak as freely especially while being a new member as we have tolerated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
I'm not telling anybody anything...I'm merely opining.....is that okay?
I hereby resiign my membership.....
good evening to you all.
Regards,
Stigmata
How could we see that coming. :td
I notice he's still listed as online.
And this just a week ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
Happy? Relieved?
Weasel(s).
Is there anyo9ne else in the world who can hone a razor?