Thread: Solar power does not work in the US...

If anybody has access to it, this is a great review that addresses well the problem of solar energy storage: Nocera, D.G., Cook, T., Dogutan, D., Reece, S., Surendranath, Y., Teets, T. Chem. Rev., 2010, 110, 6474–6502. It's just one facet of the problem, but it seems to be in the discussion now. This chart sums up a lot of the issues with various methods of storage, if you understand energy density and power density:



You can see PHES (pumped hyro) is on the low end of both power and energy density. Most kinds of purely mechanical storage are going to be on the less efficient side due to thermodynamics. We're after storage with high energy density, so there's a lot of active research to store solar energy not in what people commonly think of like batteries, but to drive reactions to store the energy in chemical bonds, one of the highest densities (disregarding nuclear, but forming nuclear bonds is not on the scale of energy of solar transformations). The idea is to use solar energy to form carbon neutral fuels that can then be transported or used when the sun is not shining. Of course this is all just basic research now that is years off, but a lot of people don't realize that some of this research is out there and could use support.

Wow-Thank you ScienceGuy for the technical details! I think SRP needs an official science advisor.

By the way, my wife lived all over Germany for years, and just laughed about the 'more sun' bit-hello desert Southwest!

I don't consider such a stupidity a problem, the problem is why it got there. Foxnews is simply really good at what they do, which is providing entertainment under the label of 'news'. They have plenty of really smart people, Gretchen Carlson from that video being an excellent example, however these people are not paid for being journalists but for playing journalists on TV, and that's what they do.

The 'financial analyst' on the other hand isn't all that bright, but that's why she's not entrusted with higher profile job. My guess is that she was hired for her looks and ability to talk in grammatically correct sentences, not for analytical abilities.

The reasons Germany is doing 'clean energy' are primarily political and they have the economic power to make it work, even if there are more profitable energy sources like nuclear power which are politically inacceptable.


As far as the pollution from battery sources - that means that the market is severely distorted. A good but rather crude solution I could think off the top of my head is for people to pay the full cost of the battery, including the environmental cost of improper disposal. If they chose to dispose it properly they could get the cost difference credited back. Or they can continue doing it this way and pass the cost to the future generations which will have to deal with the environmental clean up and the health problems. It's all a matter of choice, and being stupid enough to not see all the costs doesn't make those costs disappear.

Originally Posted by gugi

A good but rather crude solution I could think off the top of my head is for people to pay the full cost of the battery, including the environmental cost of improper disposal. If they chose to dispose it properly they could get the cost difference credited back. Or they can continue doing it this way and pass the cost to the future generations which will have to deal with the environmental clean up and the health problems. It's all a matter of choice, and being stupid enough to not see all the costs doesn't make those costs disappear.

Enough of this silliness. What is next?

Paying 3d world countries actual value for their ores and minerals?
Ending virtual slave labor in 3d world countries?
Not doing business with corporations who make their 'employees' stand waste deep in chemical sludge?

You sound like a hippie

No Ivan, our economic structure depends in large part on conveniently forgetting that such a thing as 'waste', or indeed, the entire concept of 'other people', exists. And since we are on top of that foodchain, I demand that you cease this foolery which might upset the comfortable status quo.

Originally Posted by Bruno

To date, nuclear is still the cleanest, greenest form of energy.
Sadnly, the 'green' party disagrees because nukular -> bad.

I always find it interesting that many don't like something simply because they don't understand it. Most U.S. warships are run by nuclear power. I for one understand nuclear power & am all for it...but sadly there hasn't been a nuclear power plant built here in the U.S. since the 80's IIRC. It's amazing how a small reactor in a fast attack submarine can produce so much power...

Nuclear power was about to make a comeback, even enjoying a brief rebirth among greenies, before the Japanese earthquake and Fukushima explosion and ensuing drama put the kibosh on it.

80,000 dams in the US, only 3% are used today to produce electricity, hydro power is clean, green, and these are all existing dams that could be all used for the production of electricity. There is only a few projects in Ohio, and a couple other states.

Originally Posted by Martin103

80,000 dams in the US, only 3% are used today to produce electricity, hydro power is clean, green, and these are all existing dams that could be all used for the production of electricity. There is only a few projects in Ohio, and a couple other states.

And the other side of that story can be found by searching the term "Tear down the Dams" you can find all the info about how the Dams are wrecking the ecosystem

Basically the real problem is there are 4 Billion too many people on the planet that is the number as I understand it anyway...

Originally Posted by BobH

When did Fox News become a comedy channel?

Bob

When were they something else?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

And the other side of that story can be found by searching the term "Tear down the Dams" you can find all the info about how the Dams are wrecking the ecosystem

Tear down the dams, from what i read they wont need to tear them down, they are doing that on their own, another alarming infrastructure in the US.