Thread: Pope stepping down

Well, the office that was in charge of it certainly didn't disappear, just the practice of torturing and killing people for their beliefs.

Another change that I'm much more familiar with was the abolition of the doctrine for 'three holy languages' and allowing for religious documents as well as liturgy to be conducted in other languages. That happened in 9th century and it was also politically motivated, even though to become official doctrine it was argued in a vatican council and deemed scripturally correct too. (As a result Christianity became the official and only allowed religion in my country with the respective mass killings to ensure it taking hold).

Originally Posted by gugi

Well, the office that was in charge of it certainly didn't disappear, just the practice of torturing and killing people for their beliefs.

Another change that I'm much more familiar with was the abolition of the doctrine for 'three holy languages' and allowing for religious documents as well as liturgy to be conducted in other languages. That happened in 9th century and it was also politically motivated, even though to become official doctrine it was argued in a vatican council and deemed scripturally correct too. (As a result Christianity became the official and only allowed religion in my country with the respective mass killings to ensure it taking hold).

Very very true. Whatever one thinks of the present policies of the vatican we can at least be grateful they are no longer employing their former instruments of persuasion/purification, etc.

The question of language was also very central to the ideas and works of the early proto-protestants (Wycliffe, Hus, etc). I think it is easy for us today to underestimate how contentious the question of language was in the late mediaeval and early modern Christian west.

I have to admit at this point I'm struggling hard not to descend to posting a Monty Python Spanish Inquisition clip...

I have to admit at this point I'm struggling hard not to descend to posting a Monty Python Spanish Inquisition clip...

Mel Brooks, The History of the World, Part II! Any time you can have synchronized swimming nuns in a scene from the Inquisition, well; just pure Mel Brooks genius.

Originally Posted by Cangooner

That is if the Inquisition ever actually ended. As I understand it (and I certainly stand to be corrected if this is off), "The Inquisition" evolved into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, of which one Cardinal Ratzinger was head.

There have been many inquisitions over the years but the "Roman Inquisition" didn't burn out or even fade away as the earlier mediaeval Inquisitions did. It was rebranded.

In all fairness, the Spanish inquisition was not organized by the pope or the Vatican.
And the 'witch hammer' was actually condemned by the Vatican at the time it was written.

While the connotations are negative, having an inquisition like department is normal. In matters of doctrine, there has to be someone to examine whether things / opinions / initiatives are according to Catholic doctrine or not.

EDIT: Lest my post is taken the wrong way again, I am not making excuses for the past, but the modern day department of doctrine has its place like the IRS needs tax lawyers and the US supreme court needs constitutional lawyers.

The statements in my first paragrah can be verified here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum
Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that said, let's keep this on topic.

OK guys I deleted some posts.
Let's keep this thread on topic and respectful.

Thanks Bruno - both for steering us back on course and for not killing the thread entirely. There are some important/interesting issues raised by this resignation that should be open to respectful discussion. Not only will it affect 1 billion+ people, but it is an historical oddity that I find fascinating and which raises interesting questions about Vatican governance. But hey, I'm an historian so I'm bound to get caught up in things like this.

I'm really going to watch this. I'm 51, so I only remember the last few Popes. What I'm really wanting to watch is how the process goes with the choosing of a new Pope with the old Pope still living. My first recollection of the process was when they chose JPI to replace Paul VI. I remember that and that John Paul I only lasted a month and they had to go through it all over again. In cases when a Pope dies, there seems to be a sense of urgency, perhaps not so much after JPII, as his health had been declining for some time, but it still seemed to be present. I just hope that they choose a good man, we need one.

I suspect we'll finally see the prophecy I mentioned earlier, debunked.
I too will be watching this with interest. JPII was a good man who did great things.
Benedict was always going to be a status quo pope. The one that really matters in terms of which direction the church will go, will be the next.
I pray that he will be a progressive.

Originally Posted by Bruno

OK guys I deleted some posts.
Let's keep this thread on topic and respectful.

One of the posts you deleted was mine. It was completely on topic, pointedly and clearly in response to your post above, and quite accurately formulated. I challenge you to show otherwise. Obviously however, it was in "violation" of your religious convictions.


My statements, from the post that you decided to delete, can be verified here:


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...0100/Apologist


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholi...d_Nazi_Germany


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%...he_Inquisition


From which:
Establishment of the Holy Office of the Inquisition
Torquemada's concern towards Spanish Jews grew as he perceived them as gaining increasing religious influence on, and economic domination of, Spain; he became convinced they were trying to undermine the sovereign couple’s power and, even more importantly, Roman Catholicism. King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella concurred, and soon after their accession to power petitioned the Pope to grant their request for a Holy Office to administer an inquisition in Spain. The pope granted their request, and established the Holy Office for the Propagation of the Faith in late 1478.


As to more current perversions of faith, a Belgian priest's aberrations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xFIkxAq1Xs