Thread: A question about Private Property

Originally Posted by Sailor

It is interesting how manners, laws and cultures change from country to county. We have a law called 'allemensrätten/jokamiehenoikeus' ('every man's right') saying the landowner cannot prevent people from walking/cycling/riding with a horse (lol) through his property or lands as long as they do not disturb anyone or harm the nature be it private road or not. Imho that is very useful and good law. However using motor vehicles can be prevented if the landowner says so.
The law comes from 1100th century. During famines the landowners tried to prevent starving people from hunting in their lands, but the king gave the orders of this every man's right, granting people the right to do so and such law has been here ever since. There are many limitations in this law these days but still the landowner cannot stop people from walking through his lands.

There's a recent example. There's are private road going at the neighborhood. Recently a house at the end of the road got a new owner and the man tried to stop kids from walking to school by this road. There was a hell of a yelling so pretty soon all folks here started to walk this road. The yealling got worse so someone called the cops and they gave the man a serious conversation and took him to calm down for few hours. Also at some point the poor bastard had yelled something about his rifle so police took his rifle away and now he has to learn to live without any probably for the rest of his days. That was very wrong way to start a decent naighborhood. Now he has no much friends here, but still lot of folks walking the road that goes through his land. Much more folks these days than before this new owner

From Wikipedia:

In Finland, the freedom to roam and related rights are called "jokamiehenoikeus" in Finnish and "allemansrätten" in Swedish, literally translated as "every man's rights", similar to other Nordic countries.

Everyone may walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside where this does not harm the natural environment or the landowner, except in gardens or in the immediate vicinity of people's homes (yards). Fields and plantations, which may easily be harmed, may usually not be crossed except in the winter.

One may stay or set up camp temporarily in the countryside, a reasonable distance from homes, pick mineral samples, wild berries, mushrooms and flowers (as long as they are not protected species). One may fish with a rod and line (only still waters), row, sail or use a motorboat on waterways (with certain restrictions), and swim or bathe in both inland waters and the sea. One can walk, ski and ice fish on frozen lakes, rivers and the sea. Income from selling picked berries or mushrooms is tax-free. Picking cloudberry may be temporarily restricted in parts of Lapland.

One may not disturb others or damage property, disturb breeding birds (or their nests or young), or disturb reindeer or game animals. One may not cut down or damage living trees, or collect wood, moss or lichen on other people's property, nor may one light open fires without the landowner's permission (except in an emergency). It is acceptable, however, to use an alcohol burner, wood stove or similar device that has no hot parts touching the ground. One may not disturb the privacy of people's homes by camping too near to them or making too much noise, nor litter, drive motor vehicles off road without the landowner's permission, or fish or hunt without the relevant permits.[2] In the autonomous province of Åland the right to camp is not recognized.[3]

The right is a positive right in the respect that only the government is allowed to restrict it as in the case of strict nature reserves. However, the exact definition remains mostly uncodified and based on the principle of nulla poena sine lege (what is not illegal cannot be punished)

I am wondering if some of this has to do with the density of population. I got to looking and see that here in Northern Minnesota we may have a higher density of Finns than Finland!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_finnish4.png

P.S. My wife is 1/4 Finnish! So that makes my Kids 1/8. LOL

We used to own a 1/2 section on land in northern MN. It was surronded by barbwire fence and posted at the proper intervals. We used it for duck, deer and grouse hunting, and participated in DNR conservation programs (planting pines on old open farm land and wild rice, etc. in the ponds/slews). It always amazed me the number of thoughtless f**king a**holes that would open the gates, put duck boats in the ponds, park their 4wds for deer season, etc. I could legally confiscate the boats or shoot holes in them if I wanted to, but did not choose to do so. The most irritating instance occured one year during deer season, where a man and his son opened the closed/posted gate and drove halfway up our property. When I walked up on them and asked them to leave, he acted irritated and asked me who I was. He and his son left after I informed him that I had his license plate number and would call the sheriff unless they left. What an ass and what a very poor way to teach his son about hunting. I would suggest a locking heavy steel gate with posts sunk into quickrete, but from my experience that won't stop all the jerks that feel they can trespass anywhere they want. Many years ago, another friend with a similar problem sunk boards with nails embedded in them-it worked for a while, till winter came and the jerks came in with snowmobiles and stole his generator and damaged cabins on his property. Good luck in whatever you decide, just don't take it too far-seems like a lot of those jerks enjoy "getting back". We sold the land some time ago, but were it now, I would be very tempted to fill the illegal duck boats with lead and watch them sink.

Originally Posted by 32t

I am wondering if some of this has to do with the density of population. I got to looking and see that here in Northern Minnesota we may have a higher density of Finns than Finland!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_finnish4.png

P.S. My wife is 1/4 Finnish! So that makes my Kids 1/8. LOL

Guess we all here have family members and relatives who have gone overseas and never heard ever since. And not only to USA; also Canada, Australia and Sweden have to carry this burden of tons of Finns messing in their country.
But i guess not all have forgotten this cold faraway backland. I've seen some documents from MN about small towns where they still have streets with Finnish names And when they try to speak Finnish it's like speaking with a damn hot potato in their mouth (it's the same when comparing Swedish and Danish).
Few years ago there was an interesting article in the local newspaper about Finnish emigrants in USA. It said that about 100 years ago in some towns in USA it was illegal to sell alcohol to indians and Finns. I can easily understand why although i'm not sure about the indians.

Sorry for taking this interesting conversation off topic.

Something similar may have been mentioned, but my take; coming from a more urban environment, my first thought was that signs refer to the land on either side of the road... the road itself is fair game. (Since roads in this area are all pretty much state regulated.)

And unless there was a "private road" sign where I turned onto it, I'd continue with that.

Instead of a gate, what about a cattle grid?

James.

Now that's a thought, somebody driving will at least see it & I bet 90% will stop to look at it. I'm not driving over it, if I'm not familiar with it. Lost tourists won't even know what it is & turn around.

Yeah, whenever I see a cattle grid I always wonder whether I am actually on private property. I think they may be more expensive to put in than hanging a gate though.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yeah, whenever I see a cattle grid I always wonder whether I am actually on private property. I think they may be more expensive to put in than hanging a gate though.

James.

I wouldn't expect anyone from Maleny to know much about snow...

I have only seen one around here and I never thought to ask about snow and plowing them.

The spring loaded electric gates for cattle would be another idea. you wouldn't even need to electrify them. The city folk wouldn't think about scratching their car going through them and the fire dept wouldn't be phased.