Thread: A question about Private Property

Your signage. I would turn around. Others might think that the road just lead to another road, and were using it as a Thu crossing to somewhere else.
The signs that usually stops me cold is the Dead End; No Outlet signs.

But ... If you can't see your house from the point were your signs start... Any signage like this only indicates a deserted area, away from prying eyes, to go to 'lite one up and have a quickie!'

I find it annoying when dead ends are not marked from the starting point of the road.

It is interesting how manners, laws and cultures change from country to county. We have a law called 'allemensrätten/jokamiehenoikeus' ('every man's right') saying the landowner cannot prevent people from walking/cycling/riding with a horse (lol) through his property or lands as long as they do not disturb anyone or harm the nature be it private road or not. Imho that is very useful and good law. However using motor vehicles can be prevented if the landowner says so.
The law comes from 1100th century. During famines the landowners tried to prevent starving people from hunting in their lands, but the king gave the orders of this every man's right, granting people the right to do so and such law has been here ever since. There are many limitations in this law these days but still the landowner cannot stop people from walking through his lands.

There's a recent example. There's are private road going at the neighborhood. Recently a house at the end of the road got a new owner and the man tried to stop kids from walking to school by this road. There was a hell of a yelling so pretty soon all folks here started to walk this road. The yealling got worse so someone called the cops and they gave the man a serious conversation and took him to calm down for few hours. Also at some point the poor bastard had yelled something about his rifle so police took his rifle away and now he has to learn to live without any probably for the rest of his days. That was very wrong way to start a decent naighborhood. Now he has no much friends here, but still lot of folks walking the road that goes through his land. Much more folks these days than before this new owner

From Wikipedia:

In Finland, the freedom to roam and related rights are called "jokamiehenoikeus" in Finnish and "allemansrätten" in Swedish, literally translated as "every man's rights", similar to other Nordic countries.

Everyone may walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside where this does not harm the natural environment or the landowner, except in gardens or in the immediate vicinity of people's homes (yards). Fields and plantations, which may easily be harmed, may usually not be crossed except in the winter.

One may stay or set up camp temporarily in the countryside, a reasonable distance from homes, pick mineral samples, wild berries, mushrooms and flowers (as long as they are not protected species). One may fish with a rod and line (only still waters), row, sail or use a motorboat on waterways (with certain restrictions), and swim or bathe in both inland waters and the sea. One can walk, ski and ice fish on frozen lakes, rivers and the sea. Income from selling picked berries or mushrooms is tax-free. Picking cloudberry may be temporarily restricted in parts of Lapland.

One may not disturb others or damage property, disturb breeding birds (or their nests or young), or disturb reindeer or game animals. One may not cut down or damage living trees, or collect wood, moss or lichen on other people's property, nor may one light open fires without the landowner's permission (except in an emergency). It is acceptable, however, to use an alcohol burner, wood stove or similar device that has no hot parts touching the ground. One may not disturb the privacy of people's homes by camping too near to them or making too much noise, nor litter, drive motor vehicles off road without the landowner's permission, or fish or hunt without the relevant permits.[2] In the autonomous province of Åland the right to camp is not recognized.[3]

The right is a positive right in the respect that only the government is allowed to restrict it as in the case of strict nature reserves. However, the exact definition remains mostly uncodified and based on the principle of nulla poena sine lege (what is not illegal cannot be punished)

This story came up last week. It has some people a bit ticked off. People in Malibu, who can afford to live on the beach, have tried to keep people off the beaches, thinking that they owned the beach. Nobody owns the beach, but access to it is the problem. There is access, but for years owners have used BS signs and other means to try to convince people that the beaches were private, and now someone has come up with an app to show where access points are, along with parking places. Anyway, here's a link to the story.

New Beach Access App Going to Drive Rich Malibuites Crazy - Beach Access Bingo - Curbed LA

I personally think your best bet would be posting private road and dead end signs at the start of the easement, and then once past your closest neighbors driveway do the ranch arch with another set of signs and maybe 3-4 feet of barbed wire fence on each side of the arch stopping at the tree line so that the entire width of the road is marked. That gives a clear definition of crossing a boundary and shouldn't leave any room for people to think you're talking about the land to either side. Also, using the barbed wire serves two purposes: it's slightly menacing in it's appearance so as to have a psychological impact but is also non-threatening at the same time and it would also allow snow to pass through it so you wouldn't have such large drifts.

My grandfather did something similar on his 80 acre property in rural Georgia (granted, we don't have snow drifts) and it worked like a charm.

Shoot, other than the barbed wire and maybe a couple of bags of concrete, you could probably find some downed trees (or cut them yourself, or hire the neighbor kid down the road looking for work to cut them ) and make the thing on the cheap. It doesn't have to be physically substantial, just within ordinance for the fire dept. access. Your aim is more for psychological impact.

@Glen: A simple 'drive through' arch with a sign hangin under it, saying 'private road, dead end' would probably have a much better effect. Because a lot of people will take the signs to mean the lands adjacent to the road, not the road itself.

Now, you can argue that they should know, or you wouldn't have to, or whatever, but if your main goal is to just keep people out, than the arch would have a much better chance of achieving what you want, philosophical discussions aside.

If all else fails, you have an excess of bears up there so just engage a couple to "patrol" the road. You won't need anything else.

Originally Posted by Sailor

It is interesting how manners, laws and cultures change from country to county. We have a law called 'allemensrätten/jokamiehenoikeus' ('every man's right') saying the landowner cannot prevent people from walking/cycling/riding with a horse (lol) through his property or lands as long as they do not disturb anyone or harm the nature be it private road or not. Imho that is very useful and good law. However using motor vehicles can be prevented if the landowner says so.
The law comes from 1100th century. During famines the landowners tried to prevent starving people from hunting in their lands, but the king gave the orders of this every man's right, granting people the right to do so and such law has been here ever since. There are many limitations in this law these days but still the landowner cannot stop people from walking through his lands.

There's a recent example. There's are private road going at the neighborhood. Recently a house at the end of the road got a new owner and the man tried to stop kids from walking to school by this road. There was a hell of a yelling so pretty soon all folks here started to walk this road. The yealling got worse so someone called the cops and they gave the man a serious conversation and took him to calm down for few hours. Also at some point the poor bastard had yelled something about his rifle so police took his rifle away and now he has to learn to live without any probably for the rest of his days. That was very wrong way to start a decent naighborhood. Now he has no much friends here, but still lot of folks walking the road that goes through his land. Much more folks these days than before this new owner

From Wikipedia:

In Finland, the freedom to roam and related rights are called "jokamiehenoikeus" in Finnish and "allemansrätten" in Swedish, literally translated as "every man's rights", similar to other Nordic countries.

Everyone may walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside where this does not harm the natural environment or the landowner, except in gardens or in the immediate vicinity of people's homes (yards). Fields and plantations, which may easily be harmed, may usually not be crossed except in the winter.

One may stay or set up camp temporarily in the countryside, a reasonable distance from homes, pick mineral samples, wild berries, mushrooms and flowers (as long as they are not protected species). One may fish with a rod and line (only still waters), row, sail or use a motorboat on waterways (with certain restrictions), and swim or bathe in both inland waters and the sea. One can walk, ski and ice fish on frozen lakes, rivers and the sea. Income from selling picked berries or mushrooms is tax-free. Picking cloudberry may be temporarily restricted in parts of Lapland.

One may not disturb others or damage property, disturb breeding birds (or their nests or young), or disturb reindeer or game animals. One may not cut down or damage living trees, or collect wood, moss or lichen on other people's property, nor may one light open fires without the landowner's permission (except in an emergency). It is acceptable, however, to use an alcohol burner, wood stove or similar device that has no hot parts touching the ground. One may not disturb the privacy of people's homes by camping too near to them or making too much noise, nor litter, drive motor vehicles off road without the landowner's permission, or fish or hunt without the relevant permits.[2] In the autonomous province of Åland the right to camp is not recognized.[3]

The right is a positive right in the respect that only the government is allowed to restrict it as in the case of strict nature reserves. However, the exact definition remains mostly uncodified and based on the principle of nulla poena sine lege (what is not illegal cannot be punished)

I am wondering if some of this has to do with the density of population. I got to looking and see that here in Northern Minnesota we may have a higher density of Finns than Finland!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_finnish4.png

P.S. My wife is 1/4 Finnish! So that makes my Kids 1/8. LOL

Originally Posted by 32t

I am wondering if some of this has to do with the density of population. I got to looking and see that here in Northern Minnesota we may have a higher density of Finns than Finland!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_finnish4.png

P.S. My wife is 1/4 Finnish! So that makes my Kids 1/8. LOL

Guess we all here have family members and relatives who have gone overseas and never heard ever since. And not only to USA; also Canada, Australia and Sweden have to carry this burden of tons of Finns messing in their country.
But i guess not all have forgotten this cold faraway backland. I've seen some documents from MN about small towns where they still have streets with Finnish names And when they try to speak Finnish it's like speaking with a damn hot potato in their mouth (it's the same when comparing Swedish and Danish).
Few years ago there was an interesting article in the local newspaper about Finnish emigrants in USA. It said that about 100 years ago in some towns in USA it was illegal to sell alcohol to indians and Finns. I can easily understand why although i'm not sure about the indians.

Sorry for taking this interesting conversation off topic.