Trying to decide on my first hunting rifle

Growing up in suburban Canada, my parents, and grandparents, had no use for firearms, nor any interest in hunting. My grandfather had an old 22 that he used on the farm later in life just for critter control, but I never really even saw or shot the gun.

Anyhow, I've long wanted to hunt but haven't really known anyone who did, or even how to get into the sport - that was until this year. I've met a few friends who hunt deer and who would be willing to go with me next year. Being in Canada, I need to take my firearms safety course to get a Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) and also take the Ontario Hunter Safety Course to get my deer tags. Thankfully, the government makes this easy with a "One-Stop" course that is offered in a single weekend and you can get both your licenses at the same time.

I'll be taking the course in mid-December and should have all the paperwork processed to go purchase a rifle in February sometime (I don't really care about the wait, but just mention it to give you all an idea that I'm not really pressed to make a decision any time soon). That said, I've started thinking about what I'd want in a rifle, mainly for deer hunting, but also for the occasional moose or caribou hunt. My buddy has a Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker 308 Win, and he's adamant that he'd never by another non-stainless rifle again since cleaning and maintenance are a breeze.

All of the guys in the hunting group use 308 so that they can swap ammo if needed, and they said they prefer the 308 because it has the stopping power for moose or caribou and also won't obliterate deer if shot at a closer range.

Seeing as how I know virtually nothing about rifles, and have only ever shot 4 guns in my life, I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Hi Milton.

Most hunters are probably more skilled than I. The marksmanship portion is well handled, but tracking/stalking is marginal. I say that to let you know right away there are few experts on the topic. Perhaps a gray-haired professional guide would be best there.

308 is okay, but getting marginal for moose. Its a fav chambering for me, largely because of the accuracy. I would rather something larger for moose, but the larger cartridge will make it less pleasant for all other hunting or shooting. Perhaps the biggest obstacle for the larger cartridge is that recoil will be enough to make you think before going out for what would be enough practice to gain marksmanship proficiency. It's one thing to have a marginal shot on paper - another thing altogether when hitting game. I'm not speaking here of the danger side - although that would come into play w/ the bull moose, but just giving due care and ethics of killing something. I have no prob. w/ killing something to eat. I have a prob w/ anything that would not be eaten, or if it can't be taken with a very fast, humane ending.

Rule 1: reliable shot placement trumps all discussion of which cartridge.

To gain this proficiency, you needn't constantly tenderize your shoulder by blowing heavy hunting loads for practice. The truth is that you can learn every portion of riflery with the humble .22 with the possible exception of learning to handle recoil. Several thousand rounds of high quality practice w/ a 22 and then maybe 1-300 w/ a centerfire will do way more for you than buying a beautiful trophy super boom stick, that you will then beat up by dragging it through the woods and fields. I'd rather shoot a moose w/ a 308 (with the right projectile) and be able to place a perfect shot than a cannon w/ marginal shot placement.

The other areas of hunting skills, I must leave to my betters - I'm not qualified to talk about the tracking & stalking. I tend to make up for lack of ability to close into a near shot by marksmanship.

I hope you enjoy it very much, and especially can pass the love of the sport to your children.

Talk to five different hunters, and you'll get five different opinions on what is the best rifle for a given application...

The .308 will handle the applications that you mention, personally I would take the small step up to a 30-06. I don't think you need to get into magnum cartridges, though you will find people that will recommend a magnum if you plan to shoot a moose or caribou.

If you have a budget for your gun, etc... Make sure you give consideration to the quality of scope you put on it. I'd much rather have a cheap to mid-priced gun with a good scope and rings than a high-end gun with a cheap scope and rings.

Be a man use a bow and arrow.

Personally I would favor a Ruger model 77 or a Remington bolt action over a semi auto. A Winchester model 70 maybe. Here is a blurb on the .308 and here is another on the '06. For what you're intending and because all of your friends use it, I would opt for the .308. The '06 is a great cartridge too though and probably a bit more powerful at the high end. Enjoy your new found hobby.

Just logged onto Firing Line Forums and ran into a thread on the same topic here. :)

the two high power rifles I have are both the same model just different calibers. one is an older savage model 110 long action and the other is a newer model 110 long action. they're both nice accurate rifles, but the newer ones have the accu-trigger system which was introduced to improve the one problem savage had (trigger drag). personaly I like them both. even with the trigger drag the older savage triggers were still nice and crisp.

as far as the caliber I would go ahead and use the .308 since that's what all your friends use, even though my presonnal preference when going for larger game would be my 7mm rem mag the .308 should do just fine.

oh and if you want sometihng a bit more versitile you might add a 12ga. to the gun safe...for small game, birds and even medium sized game if you swap out the standard barrel for a rifled barrel useing either slugs or sabot rounds....the rifled barrel and slug combination can even be used on deer out to 100 yards or so....whatever you chose have fun :gwh:

+1 on what Pinklather and HNSB said.

If it were me, I'd get a .30-06. It's been a while since I've looked at the loadings available for it, but IIRC, you can get anythng between 110gr-220gr bullet weights. Moreover (at least in the US) virtually every sportings good store than sell guns will have some loading for .30-06. (I don't know if that holds true in Canada, though). The 220gr loading should handle a big Moose just fine, IMO.

Your optics and scope rings (as well as scope mount if the rifle doesn't come with one) is more important than the actual rifle (assuming you're not buying a used rifle with a worn out barrel). However, you don't need to put a $1,000 scope on the rifle, either, IMO.

If you're on a budget, look at the Savage line. A lot of guys "poo-poo" Savage as being cheap, but in my own experience the accuracy Savage delivers is outstanding (expecially for the price). The current production Accutriggers (adjustable for trigger weight) are really nice, too.

If you're on a really tight budget, consider getting a used Savage 110. They're well made and have excellent accuracy. My first rifle was a used Savage 110 in .243, and even with a cheapo Simmons scope, I was shooting finches at 200+ yards from prone, resting the rifle over a felled tree.

If you buy a used rifle, it would be helpful if you could get your hands on a borescope to check the bore for wear, rust, blown out throat, etc. (This is not something you can tell just by looking down the muzzle--even a bad bore can look good because the bore's surface is very reflective). However, if the rifle looks like it's been well maintained from the exterior, then in all likely the bore has been maintained as well. Most gun owners only shoot their rifles or hanguns a bit when new, and then don't use them that much as time passes. As long as a used rifle has been cleaned and oiled, it should be fine. So, you can get a really nice deal on a used rifle if you're careful in your selection.

Take the money you've saved by purchasing a moderately priced rifle and buy a .22 as Pinklather suggests. I would buy a .22 in bolt action so that you are practising with the same platform as your hunting rilfe. Also, a bolt action forces you to slow down and focus on accuracy, instead of just dumping rounds downrange as often happens in semi-auto's. I've seen DRDS (dumping rounds downrange syndrome) happen over and over with new shooters on both rifles and pisols. They never learn sight picture, trigger control, cheek weld, etc. Semi-autos like a Ruger 10-22 are a lot of fun, but if you lack discipline, using one won't help you develop the skills needed to be a proficient hunter.

In setting up a .22 rifle, use a scope as well so you can practise with optics. The quality of the scope and mount on a .22 isn't as critical, IMO, but you still don't want to be putting junk optics on your .22. You can get a good .22 scope at a low price, just be sure you're not digging through the bargain bin to find it.

The barrel contour is also critical in a hunting situation, as it determines the weight of the rifle. (You probably already know this, but I'm going to say it anyway). Bull barrels are target/sniper rifles. There are featherweight contours for hunting available, too, but I personally wouldn't go that light due to greater felt recoil. (I tend to be recoil sensitive, so I'd rather carry just a bit more weight to make the rifle more comfortable to shoot, but, YMMV).

If you do buy a rifle with a featherweight barrel, when practising with it make sure to let the barrel cool down every few rounds. Lightweight barrels heat up quickly, and this will throw the round off from you point of aim.

As you learn with your hunting rifle, go slow! Meaning, don't shoot fast and get beat up by recoil. If you do, you increse the likelihood of developing a flinch, and you'll never be a good shot until you overcome it (I know this from personal experience of my misbegotten youth).

When you hold the rifle make sure that it's pulled in tight to your shoulder, and that you have a good tight cheek weld. If you hold the rifle loose, the recoil will slap you up side the head, and then you'll be anticipating that same effect on the next round and will develop a flinch. Proficient hunters and shooters NEVER flinch!!

There's a youtube video out there where some guy from what I assume is the MiddleEast is firing a rifle off hand in an indoor range. He's holding the rifle very loose, and when the round goes off, the rifle goes flying through the air and he's knocked flat on his ass. Oh, man, I just laughed and laughed and laughed when I saw that. I feel for the guy, but that's what happens when you fail to hold a rifle tight. (I bet he has a REALLY BAD flinch now! LOL!).

Last, learn your ballistics for the load you're using!! Your buddies probably have a ballistics program you can use to determine bullet drop at various distances. (If not, PM me with your load data and I'll run it for you on my ballistics program, and send it back to you in a .jpg). Set your targets out at the varioius distances you intend to shoot, and practise where you need to place your crosshairs to hit the X ring. In all shooting, understanding the ballistics for your load is essential. If you don't know that, you'll never be able to place the round where it needs to go.

Hope you find a nice hunting rig and bring home the meat!!

Kent

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Originally Posted by Milton Man

Seeing as how I know virtually nothing about rifles, and have only ever shot 4 guns in my life, I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions.

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Most of us probably started with an air rifle, moved up to .22 rimfire and then to a centrefire rifle.
There are many advantages to learning with a spring powered air rifle, because pellet travels relatively slowly down the barrel, it forces you to concentrate on the basics of holding steady, breath and trigger control.
My personal view is that you should only move on to shooting game animals when your marksmanship is perfected enough to ensure a clean kill.

canada has some great hunting. i killed a few black bears up there. get on a canadian hunting site. i think your going at it the right way. coming from ohio we can not use rifles. we use slug guns in our deer gun season. just find some folks that been hunting and shooting for awhile. just always know your target and keep your finger off the trigger till your ready to shoot. good luck and have fun.

Remington Model 700. Great rifle and you can get it in many different calibers. The caliber I shoot most often is 30-06, but 308 is a great caliber as well. If you really want stopping power you can get a 338. The caliber is something you will need to chose based on what you want to hunt. But as far as a rifle that will never let you down I vote for the Remington 700

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Be a man use a bow and arrow.

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Reckon you can't go wrong with Missouri style long rifle in .50 double set triggers !!

cheers:beer2:

Milt, it sound like the people here want you to succeed and enjoy. I'm one of them.

All best of luck.

Thanks for the great information and suggestions, guys - VERY much appreciated. It took me just about forever to figure out the red tape needed just to get into the sport, but the Ontario Hunters Education Program website (Ontario Hunter Education Program - O.F.A.H./M.N.R) made really good sense and simplified the process, including linking prospective hunters to the courses and instructors.

Thanks a lot for all of your suggestions, I think I've settled on a bolt action 308, probably the same rifle as my buddy, the Browning X-Bolt Stainless Steel Composite Stalker ( X-Bolt Stainless Stalker, one Accurate Bolt Action Deer Elk Varmint Big Game Hunting Rifle for Extreme Conditions., Browning Firearms Product) due to the wet/snowy weather when our deer season takes place (first Monday in November and lasts 14 days).

You've also convinced me of the need to practice my shooting technique with a .22 - any suggestions on a decent but value-priced rifle? Finding a range here to practice will also be challenging, since most are private clubs in these parts - more research will be needed in this regard.

Thanks again to everyone who already responded - any more suggestions for a new hunter would be greatly appreciated.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Milton Man

Thanks for the great information and suggestions, guys - VERY much appreciated. It took me just about forever to figure out the red tape needed just to get into the sport, but the Ontario Hunters Education Program website (Ontario Hunter Education Program - O.F.A.H./M.N.R) made really good sense and simplified the process, including linking prospective hunters to the courses and instructors.

Thanks a lot for all of your suggestions, I think I've settled on a bolt action 308, probably the same rifle as my buddy, the Browning X-Bolt Stainless Steel Composite Stalker ( X-Bolt Stainless Stalker, one Accurate Bolt Action Deer Elk Varmint Big Game Hunting Rifle for Extreme Conditions., Browning Firearms Product) due to the wet/snowy weather when our deer season takes place (first Monday in November and lasts 14 days).

You've also convinced me of the need to practice my shooting technique with a .22 - any suggestions on a decent but value-priced rifle? Finding a range here to practice will also be challenging, since most are private clubs in these parts - more research will be needed in this regard.

Thanks again to everyone who already responded - any more suggestions for a new hunter would be greatly appreciated.

Mark

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you might also think about an air rifle....not sure what the limits are on psi and muzzle velocity are up there but some of the lower powered ones don't even require a permit

an air rifle is also cheaper than a .22 (especially the ammo) and good for practice....better with an air rifle makes you better with a rimfire makes you better with a centerfire. it might also be easier to find a place to practice with an air rifle

Even the cheap Savage tube fed .22's are capable of hitting the same spot repeatedly at 50 yards. Just get a .22 that's comfy for you.

If you're looking to customize/upgrade it down the road, the Ruger 10/22 can't be beat.

Milton Man,

+1 on the Remington 700.

I would suggest the 'PSS' model (or similar). Very robust, under-stated looks and very accurate.

If you do go for the Remington, if it has the old-pattern trigger I would get a gunsmith to adjust it to a creep-free 3.25 lb pull off. The standard trigger pulls on the ones I have seen were about 8 lbs !

+1 on the 0.308W - a fine choice of calibre; with the correct bullet weights and construction, you are good to go for quite a range of quarry.

A quality scope and mounts is money well spent !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Couple of things. I'm not as old or experienced as others here, but am rather a gun enthusiast.

First, Browning is a good choice. I have a Browning lever action 30-06 that I bought at the ripe old age of 13, along with a Simmons "AETEC" scope. That combination served me well, with a record shot at a 110lb antelope at 600+ yards. However it was that hunt that convinced me of the need for a nicer scope, and now the Leupold scope I went with cost more than what I paid for my rifle. It is far better, but at <$200 the Simmons was a fine scope.

My grandpa used to always say if you have to skimp on the gun or the scope, get the expensive scope. I think all of his hunting rifles had scopes that cost more than the gun.

While the stainless/composite is a fine choice for the reasons mentioned, blue/wood really doesn't require an undue amount of maintenance. You should clean any gun after use, or after a day in the field. With some basic precautions blue finish will not be any worse.

Though I know you have made your choice, I would have gone with the 30-06 (which I did). It gives you a greater range of bullet weights and loadings. Here in the US I believe it is the most popular hunting round, followed by the 270 magnum (or was a few years ago). As I said my relatively short barrel (22" I believe) was able to take down an antelope at over 600 yards.

However the ability to share ammo with your hunting buddies is worth something as well.

Persionally id say the old ought six for a hunting rifel i use one ever year for whitetail and bear and ive never had a deer get away from me, i havent ever shot a bear. The reason i have an ought six is becuae my uncle got me a used one when i turned 12 and i loved it so much i still have it. they are a great gun for long range and the thick pa woods,

Rule 1: reliable shot placement trumps all discussion of which cartridge.

well said Pinklather

30.06 is a good choice. Can't really go wrong with a Remington. I've got a Ruger that's very good though.

Savage is rifle of choice for me as it is built for accurace and not to look pretty. The Savage is a working tool, not a wall piece. I like both .308 and 30.06 as both are excellant calibre's. By choice for what you intend to hunt I would go the .06, but as has been said, shot placement is what you need to have to a high standard. Bolt action is best for accuracy. Semi-auto's are just waste bullets and encourage a reliability on a fast follow up. One shot, one kill is what you should be practicing.
As for a .22 a Savage series 200 is nice and cheap. Or one of those Ruger 10/22's in bolt action.
Everyone raves about Remingtons and a few other top brands, and yes they are great rifles, but you're paying more for the name.
In the end you will have to buy what fits your stature best or modify what you do get, to get the fit you want.
You don't want to be either scooching down too low or sticking your head up too high to look through a 'scope. That rifle stock has got to be an aid to putting your head in the right position. Not a hinderance. Anyway plenty has been said already. And being a slightly older thread you will have made some choices already.


Mick

I also hand loaded all my shells. While factory ammunition is extremely consistent, I never knew anyone who shot recreationally that didn't hand load.

That was 25 years ago. Of the three of us who shot together, I had a Remington 6mm, another of us had an array of Remington .223 weapons, and one of us had an old piece of crap JC Higgins 30-06.

We all hand loaded, and the variety of components available in 30 caliber is astounding. That 30-06 cartridge can be loaded to do more, and less, than almost any other commercially available caliber. Man, could that guy hit with that 30-06 of his.

The only drawback to varmint shooting with the 30-06 is the sheer volume of powder it took.

I'd guess a .308 cartridge can be made to do just about anything the 30-06 cartridge can do.

What to get? I'd get the '-06 in a modern bolt action rifle, for no other reason than cartridge availability. But, that's just me.

If you are going big game, you need a big caliber. Moose is big. You need lots of penitration for an animal that size. A 30-06 will work on elk but you are pushing the limit. As a sportsman I want a quick clean kill. That elk went around a half mile before he dropped and that was with proper shot placement.

I use a Browning A-bolt chambered in 338 Winchester mag and fitted with a Leupold scope. It may sound overkill for deer, but you can load it down for smaller game. But really, can you dispatch the animal to fast? A deer drops in its tracks and with the right loads I do not get a through and through which is good. That means the bullet expended all of its energy inside the animal killing it quickly. Go with hot 250 grain loads and it will drop an elk where it stands. Down side, you dont shoot it for pleasure. Ammo is expensive (I reload) and kicks like a mule.

Get yourself a Benelli R1 in 30-06. Reliable, accurate and rather pretty.

Is that Binelli Semi-Auto? Those are not legal for hunting some places. Not sure about the OP location, but I know in PA you could not hunt with a semi-auto.

Thanks guys - I'm in Ontario, Canada. I believe that semi-automatic hunting rifles may be legal here (don't really know), I'm actually pretty set on a bolt-action. I'm debating which on still, thinking about the Browning x-bolt, the Remmington 700 series, or one of the Savage Arms Accutrigger rifles.

I've still got a month before I take my course that allows me to go purchase a rifle, but when I do, I'll let y'all know what I get!

Thanks for all who responded with all the great info - you've all given me lots to consider!

Mark

Those are all really good rifles. You can't go wrong with any of them, IMO.

Buy whatever you can afford and is going to make you happy.

Kent

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Originally Posted by klsmsn

Those are all really good rifles. You can't go wrong with any of them, IMO.

Buy whatever you can afford and is going to make you happy.

Kent

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+1 Ditto


Mick

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Originally Posted by Milton Man

Thanks guys - I'm in Ontario, Canada. I believe that semi-automatic hunting rifles may be legal here (don't really know), I'm actually pretty set on a bolt-action. I'm debating which on still, thinking about the Browning x-bolt, the Remmington 700 series, or one of the Savage Arms Accutrigger rifles.

I've still got a month before I take my course that allows me to go purchase a rifle, but when I do, I'll let y'all know what I get!

Thanks for all who responded with all the great info - you've all given me lots to consider!

Mark

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with a month to go before your class/permit I would really look at air rifles for cheap practice untill you get your rifle...and as I said before I don't think that you need any special permit for one as long as its velocity and chamber pressure are under the legal limit, but I'm not sure what that limit is since im not from canada.

Interesting thread!

After reading it I would like to give my summary;

1) As many have suggested, the 30/06 is the way to go. Especially when you start handloading you have more flexibility...110grains to 220grains! (I have loaded mine for more than 30 years now)

2) An auto loader will not encourage the development of good shooting skills. Go with the bolt action

3) Most makes of rifle now are of acceptable quality, go for what looks good and suits your budget.

4) The recoil is easy to get used to. Do what I did, buy a .416 Rigby and when you take out the 30/06 again it feels like a .22 ! :)

Cheers Anthony

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Originally Posted by nickedNsliced

with a month to go before your class/permit I would really look at air rifles for cheap practice untill you get your rifle...and as I said before I don't think that you need any special permit for one as long as its velocity and chamber pressure are under the legal limit, but I'm not sure what that limit is since im not from canada.

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Thanks for the suggestion - Non-permit air gun velocity in Canada is less than 500 feet per second.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Milton Man

Thanks for the suggestion - Non-permit air gun velocity in Canada is less than 500 feet per second.

Mark

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Air rifles, especially the slower velocity ones, are great teaching aids for shooting. Since the velocity is so much lower than a real rifle you will need to learn to "follow through" with your shots. Any sort of shake after pulling the trigger will impact greatly on the accuracy of your shot, thus teaching you how to be super accurate. Great Advice Nicked ;)

i would want a pre-64 winchester model 70 in .220 swift with a bull barrel and a powerful scope. if i can't have that i'll take a ruger no. 1 tropical in .375 h&h magnum. used to have a remington 700 in 22-250, which i loaded with a lee handloader. my father, whose hobby was shooting woodchucks in his semi-suburban yard, wanted to borrow it to nail a couple of them out the second floor window. i said sure, just make sure you shut the windows and pretend you're not at home because the cops will be there within seconds after you pull the trigger. i used to shoot it off a bipod and the grass would flatten out for 15 feet in front of it.

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Originally Posted by cannonfodder

If you are going big game, you need a big caliber. Moose is big. You need lots of penitration for an animal that size. A 30-06 will work on elk but you are pushing the limit. As a sportsman I want a quick clean kill. That elk went around a half mile before he dropped and that was with proper shot placement.

I use a Browning A-bolt chambered in 338 Winchester mag and fitted with a Leupold scope. It may sound overkill for deer, but you can load it down for smaller game. But really, can you dispatch the animal to fast? A deer drops in its tracks and with the right loads I do not get a through and through which is good. That means the bullet expended all of its energy inside the animal killing it quickly. Go with hot 250 grain loads and it will drop an elk where it stands. Down side, you dont shoot it for pleasure. Ammo is expensive (I reload) and kicks like a mule.

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+1 on cannonfodder's magnum mindset.

Why not pick up a WW2 Mauser in 8mm? The rifle is inexpensive, shoots very well, good caliber out to about 300 yards or so and commercial ammo is available.
Plus, the rifle can be customized with a new barrel and such to make any magnum caliber rifle ya might want.
A customized Military Mauser might run ya ~$300 if ya find a good one.

HUSQVARNA MOD 648


As for a .22 cal, I just picked up a savage 64 semi auto not too long ago for plinking.
It shoots straight and eats up any .22 ammo I feed it.
I bought it so my daughter can learn how to shoot a rifle with it.

Happy Shooting !!

Just a bit of an update (since I don't like threads that ask for advice and then die an unresolved death).

I just passed my firearms safety course and hunter's education course on the weekend! Woo! This means that I now get to enter the red-tape forest, and hope to emerge back to civilization sometime around mid to end of February with my Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) which will allow me to purchase a rifle or shotgun.

That is all - and now back to your regularly scheduled reading.

Mark

I've never heard anyone say that "the government makes it easy" in Canada, even after having hunted there many years. The hoops to jump through to bring firearms into Canada and hunt there as an American are frankly mystifying.

That being said, I think your choice of a .308 is excellent. I've used a .308 to hunt deer in Ontario and Manitoba and depending on the grain of the bullet (I've used both 150 and 180) a .308 is both a very good brush-buster and has excellent longer-range ballistics. I believe the famous American sniper Carlos Hath**** used a .308 though I may be mistaken.

As far as your gun, that choice is up to you. I have an early Winchester model 88 that I absolutely love. Perhaps the lever action isn't the most practical for firing off a bunch rounds quickly, but that gun is a tack driver and its beautifully made. With deer anyway, you won't need more than a shot; I've never shot more than once at a deer with that gun and it's very effective at stopping.

My two cents would be to buy a vintage gun that has some soul, whatever the make or model. IMO, older guns that have some history are much more rewarding to carry into the woods.

The important thing though is that you'll be in the woods! There is nothing better. Good luck!

I happen to know a little about rifles, cartridges, and shooting & the .308 will do you fine. I would like to recommend that before settling on the Browning, you should shoot each of your buddies rifles to see which one fits you best.

The most important thing you should get out of this thread is firearm safety, shot placement & clean kills.

Happy hunting & congrats on part one of the red tape affair,
Scott

.308 is a fine caliber for what you're looking to hunt, but don't go wasting your time with air rifles in the hopes it will prepare you to shoot it. You'd might as well get a Nerf gun, because it will be about as comparable to a .308 as a break-barrel pellet gun, or whatever you're looking at.

Instead of sinking money into an air gun, you should be looking to get yourself a better center-fire rifle. Everyone's been talking about Savage rifles, but you don't want one of those things. Yes they're cheap and will function, but you've got to consider the resources that will be made available to you once you get your PAL: you'll be able to get quality hunting rifles all over the place, often very affordably. Get a quality used rifle before you get a Savage.

On the subject of bolt-action rifles - you may want to go for a lever-action instead. Like I said, there are varying qualities when it comes to bolt guns, and as a novice hunter, you may be faced with having to put a few rounds into an animal, should you get the chance to shoot at one. Cheaper bolt guns often mean you're lowering the rifle away from your shoulder to put another round in the chamber. Most lever guns are a little shorter in length and allow you to rack away the brass while keepig the gun at your shoulder, your eyes looking down the sights.

Also consider lever guns often offer you the convenience of a box-fed magazine. When you're walking about with your rifle, say, on a roadway, you're legally required to empty your gun. If you're using a Savage, this means ejecting the rounds individually and having to fumble around with them with your gloved hands. In the bitter cold of Ontario, this is no fun. With a box magazine you just drop 'er in. *Click!* Five rounds, ready to go.

So yeah - I wouldn't advise an air gun, but you can't go wrong with a .22 LR. Excellent target round. The ammunition is dirt cheap. Bolt guns are fun for .22's. I own a couple. But when it comes to .22's there only one to get: The Ruger 10/22. Stock magazine is 10 rounds (hence the x10 /.22 name), but with rimfire cartridges in Canada, this gun is a luxury, because you're not subject to the same restrictions you are with center-fire rounds, meaning you can purchase all of the attachments and accessories the Americans enjoy with his rifle, including 25, 30 and 50 round magazines for it, all in semi-automatic.

Just type in a search for it on YouTube. It is the .22 rifle. One of the most customizable firearms in the world, this rifle.

And, my heckles went up after that one...

To the OP: Savages are fine guns as are all the others that were recommended to you. My old .308 savage shown below has and still will outshoot many that are 3-4x as expensive. I know...in formal competition with this rifle. It's knowing your weapon, load, and your own skills that makes a shooter. The load: 178gr A-max, 38.0 gr H322, CCI LR Benchrest

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