Thread: Trying to decide on my first hunting rifle

Growing up in suburban Canada, my parents, and grandparents, had no use for firearms, nor any interest in hunting. My grandfather had an old 22 that he used on the farm later in life just for critter control, but I never really even saw or shot the gun.

Anyhow, I've long wanted to hunt but haven't really known anyone who did, or even how to get into the sport - that was until this year. I've met a few friends who hunt deer and who would be willing to go with me next year. Being in Canada, I need to take my firearms safety course to get a Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) and also take the Ontario Hunter Safety Course to get my deer tags. Thankfully, the government makes this easy with a "One-Stop" course that is offered in a single weekend and you can get both your licenses at the same time.

I'll be taking the course in mid-December and should have all the paperwork processed to go purchase a rifle in February sometime (I don't really care about the wait, but just mention it to give you all an idea that I'm not really pressed to make a decision any time soon). That said, I've started thinking about what I'd want in a rifle, mainly for deer hunting, but also for the occasional moose or caribou hunt. My buddy has a Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker 308 Win, and he's adamant that he'd never by another non-stainless rifle again since cleaning and maintenance are a breeze.

All of the guys in the hunting group use 308 so that they can swap ammo if needed, and they said they prefer the 308 because it has the stopping power for moose or caribou and also won't obliterate deer if shot at a closer range.

Seeing as how I know virtually nothing about rifles, and have only ever shot 4 guns in my life, I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Hi Milton.

Most hunters are probably more skilled than I. The marksmanship portion is well handled, but tracking/stalking is marginal. I say that to let you know right away there are few experts on the topic. Perhaps a gray-haired professional guide would be best there.

308 is okay, but getting marginal for moose. Its a fav chambering for me, largely because of the accuracy. I would rather something larger for moose, but the larger cartridge will make it less pleasant for all other hunting or shooting. Perhaps the biggest obstacle for the larger cartridge is that recoil will be enough to make you think before going out for what would be enough practice to gain marksmanship proficiency. It's one thing to have a marginal shot on paper - another thing altogether when hitting game. I'm not speaking here of the danger side - although that would come into play w/ the bull moose, but just giving due care and ethics of killing something. I have no prob. w/ killing something to eat. I have a prob w/ anything that would not be eaten, or if it can't be taken with a very fast, humane ending.

Rule 1: reliable shot placement trumps all discussion of which cartridge.

To gain this proficiency, you needn't constantly tenderize your shoulder by blowing heavy hunting loads for practice. The truth is that you can learn every portion of riflery with the humble .22 with the possible exception of learning to handle recoil. Several thousand rounds of high quality practice w/ a 22 and then maybe 1-300 w/ a centerfire will do way more for you than buying a beautiful trophy super boom stick, that you will then beat up by dragging it through the woods and fields. I'd rather shoot a moose w/ a 308 (with the right projectile) and be able to place a perfect shot than a cannon w/ marginal shot placement.

The other areas of hunting skills, I must leave to my betters - I'm not qualified to talk about the tracking & stalking. I tend to make up for lack of ability to close into a near shot by marksmanship.

I hope you enjoy it very much, and especially can pass the love of the sport to your children.

Talk to five different hunters, and you'll get five different opinions on what is the best rifle for a given application...

The .308 will handle the applications that you mention, personally I would take the small step up to a 30-06. I don't think you need to get into magnum cartridges, though you will find people that will recommend a magnum if you plan to shoot a moose or caribou.

If you have a budget for your gun, etc... Make sure you give consideration to the quality of scope you put on it. I'd much rather have a cheap to mid-priced gun with a good scope and rings than a high-end gun with a cheap scope and rings.

Be a man use a bow and arrow.

Personally I would favor a Ruger model 77 or a Remington bolt action over a semi auto. A Winchester model 70 maybe. Here is a blurb on the .308 and here is another on the '06. For what you're intending and because all of your friends use it, I would opt for the .308. The '06 is a great cartridge too though and probably a bit more powerful at the high end. Enjoy your new found hobby.

Just logged onto Firing Line Forums and ran into a thread on the same topic here.

the two high power rifles I have are both the same model just different calibers. one is an older savage model 110 long action and the other is a newer model 110 long action. they're both nice accurate rifles, but the newer ones have the accu-trigger system which was introduced to improve the one problem savage had (trigger drag). personaly I like them both. even with the trigger drag the older savage triggers were still nice and crisp.

as far as the caliber I would go ahead and use the .308 since that's what all your friends use, even though my presonnal preference when going for larger game would be my 7mm rem mag the .308 should do just fine.

oh and if you want sometihng a bit more versitile you might add a 12ga. to the gun safe...for small game, birds and even medium sized game if you swap out the standard barrel for a rifled barrel useing either slugs or sabot rounds....the rifled barrel and slug combination can even be used on deer out to 100 yards or so....whatever you chose have fun

+1 on what Pinklather and HNSB said.

If it were me, I'd get a .30-06. It's been a while since I've looked at the loadings available for it, but IIRC, you can get anythng between 110gr-220gr bullet weights. Moreover (at least in the US) virtually every sportings good store than sell guns will have some loading for .30-06. (I don't know if that holds true in Canada, though). The 220gr loading should handle a big Moose just fine, IMO.

Your optics and scope rings (as well as scope mount if the rifle doesn't come with one) is more important than the actual rifle (assuming you're not buying a used rifle with a worn out barrel). However, you don't need to put a $1,000 scope on the rifle, either, IMO.

If you're on a budget, look at the Savage line. A lot of guys "poo-poo" Savage as being cheap, but in my own experience the accuracy Savage delivers is outstanding (expecially for the price). The current production Accutriggers (adjustable for trigger weight) are really nice, too.

If you're on a really tight budget, consider getting a used Savage 110. They're well made and have excellent accuracy. My first rifle was a used Savage 110 in .243, and even with a cheapo Simmons scope, I was shooting finches at 200+ yards from prone, resting the rifle over a felled tree.

If you buy a used rifle, it would be helpful if you could get your hands on a borescope to check the bore for wear, rust, blown out throat, etc. (This is not something you can tell just by looking down the muzzle--even a bad bore can look good because the bore's surface is very reflective). However, if the rifle looks like it's been well maintained from the exterior, then in all likely the bore has been maintained as well. Most gun owners only shoot their rifles or hanguns a bit when new, and then don't use them that much as time passes. As long as a used rifle has been cleaned and oiled, it should be fine. So, you can get a really nice deal on a used rifle if you're careful in your selection.

Take the money you've saved by purchasing a moderately priced rifle and buy a .22 as Pinklather suggests. I would buy a .22 in bolt action so that you are practising with the same platform as your hunting rilfe. Also, a bolt action forces you to slow down and focus on accuracy, instead of just dumping rounds downrange as often happens in semi-auto's. I've seen DRDS (dumping rounds downrange syndrome) happen over and over with new shooters on both rifles and pisols. They never learn sight picture, trigger control, cheek weld, etc. Semi-autos like a Ruger 10-22 are a lot of fun, but if you lack discipline, using one won't help you develop the skills needed to be a proficient hunter.

In setting up a .22 rifle, use a scope as well so you can practise with optics. The quality of the scope and mount on a .22 isn't as critical, IMO, but you still don't want to be putting junk optics on your .22. You can get a good .22 scope at a low price, just be sure you're not digging through the bargain bin to find it.

The barrel contour is also critical in a hunting situation, as it determines the weight of the rifle. (You probably already know this, but I'm going to say it anyway). Bull barrels are target/sniper rifles. There are featherweight contours for hunting available, too, but I personally wouldn't go that light due to greater felt recoil. (I tend to be recoil sensitive, so I'd rather carry just a bit more weight to make the rifle more comfortable to shoot, but, YMMV).

If you do buy a rifle with a featherweight barrel, when practising with it make sure to let the barrel cool down every few rounds. Lightweight barrels heat up quickly, and this will throw the round off from you point of aim.

As you learn with your hunting rifle, go slow! Meaning, don't shoot fast and get beat up by recoil. If you do, you increse the likelihood of developing a flinch, and you'll never be a good shot until you overcome it (I know this from personal experience of my misbegotten youth).

When you hold the rifle make sure that it's pulled in tight to your shoulder, and that you have a good tight cheek weld. If you hold the rifle loose, the recoil will slap you up side the head, and then you'll be anticipating that same effect on the next round and will develop a flinch. Proficient hunters and shooters NEVER flinch!!

There's a youtube video out there where some guy from what I assume is the MiddleEast is firing a rifle off hand in an indoor range. He's holding the rifle very loose, and when the round goes off, the rifle goes flying through the air and he's knocked flat on his ass. Oh, man, I just laughed and laughed and laughed when I saw that. I feel for the guy, but that's what happens when you fail to hold a rifle tight. (I bet he has a REALLY BAD flinch now! LOL!).

Last, learn your ballistics for the load you're using!! Your buddies probably have a ballistics program you can use to determine bullet drop at various distances. (If not, PM me with your load data and I'll run it for you on my ballistics program, and send it back to you in a .jpg). Set your targets out at the varioius distances you intend to shoot, and practise where you need to place your crosshairs to hit the X ring. In all shooting, understanding the ballistics for your load is essential. If you don't know that, you'll never be able to place the round where it needs to go.

Hope you find a nice hunting rig and bring home the meat!!

Kent

Originally Posted by Milton Man

Seeing as how I know virtually nothing about rifles, and have only ever shot 4 guns in my life, I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions.

Most of us probably started with an air rifle, moved up to .22 rimfire and then to a centrefire rifle.
There are many advantages to learning with a spring powered air rifle, because pellet travels relatively slowly down the barrel, it forces you to concentrate on the basics of holding steady, breath and trigger control.
My personal view is that you should only move on to shooting game animals when your marksmanship is perfected enough to ensure a clean kill.

canada has some great hunting. i killed a few black bears up there. get on a canadian hunting site. i think your going at it the right way. coming from ohio we can not use rifles. we use slug guns in our deer gun season. just find some folks that been hunting and shooting for awhile. just always know your target and keep your finger off the trigger till your ready to shoot. good luck and have fun.