Thread: Samurai Sword

I had (have). A chance to buy this sword at an antique shop for 250$ but I know there are so many fakes out there. Do we have any sword lovers that could tell me if they think it is real or a reproduction? I have been reading for several hours on google and I am thinking its a real WW2 sword. But...

Artifake, through and through. Save your money.

What is it that screams fake? All my google research was saying look for things like stainless steel and such
This is carbon, also how old would it be ? A reproduction from the 70s? Or like real new and weathered artificially.

Apart from the shoestring ito The steel looks like it's modern. Pattern welded from 2 fairly different steels giving such a stark contrast in the grain. The grain itself does not ring a bell for me. Japanese styles are pretty formalised & tamahagane is far more subtle.

Originally Posted by sidmind

What is it that screams fake? All my google research was saying look for things like stainless steel and such
This is carbon, also how old would it be ? A reproduction from the 70s? Or like real new and weathered artificially.

This is a made in China fake maybe more than a week but not more than five years or so when these dodgers started creeping into the market. I've seen them priced as low as 50 USD. Everything about it is wrong.

The lacquer work looks nearly new while all the rest of the fittings look well patinated. Why would you have a new saya built and not clean up everything else? Polish the blade (for 100+ USD per inch), since the blade is the most important part of the whole set. The Chinese artifakirs have figured out that there must be a pattern in the blade to "be a real Japanese sword", but they went for a modern patternwelded piece of steel then etched in a western style. The pattern even looks kind of like gassan ryu. I stopped counting layers at 25-50 on the side in view. Add one layer for the core and 25-50 on the back side that's maybe 101 layers and too few for any of the smiths I can think of.

See here: Ko Gassan Katana

The general overall look of a working sword. Simple, clean, elegant, subdued. All the fittings are clean with small delicate features. The second to last photo shows the hada very clearly typical of Gassan Ryu stylee. Now you can see that pattern, but if you ran a fingernail along that surface you wouldn't feel a thing. It's polished completely smooth and reveals the pattern. This artifake would likely break a fingernail if you tried that yourself.

The butt cap has the typical look of a very rare tachi cavalry mount or gunto (e.g. the lanyard loop) but those were a military fitting. Those fittings would not be nearly so ornate and besides these castings are gross. Even the habaki has been badly done. It's premature aging looks terrible and I can't tell from the pictures but there is most usually no engraving at all on the flats of the habaki. The work screams not Japanese, not even bad Japanese stuff. I would not be surprised to find kanji on the habaki (remember they don't belong where I can see them) and perhaps even under the tsuka (handle) because the artifakirs are smart enough to know they should be there too, but they won't make any sense to a person who can read Japanese or if they did because they could be getting better at the fakiry, it won't make sense in the traditional markings expected.

The mid scabbard lanyard thing is maybe something seen on an old tachi perhaps for a very old mount but there were similar features for WWII swords. That suggests old, or very rare, so you'll get the idea that it's really more valuable that the pittance that you can have it for today....but the placement is not at the balance point for this blade nor a real tachi nor a real WWII gunto. And if you did try to stick it in your belt the right way, e.g. edge up, that hanger thingee would get in the way of getting it in your belt in the first place.

See here: 1939 Pattern Shin Gunto

See here: koshirae

In the gunto pictures you can see that it's subdued, much finer quality materials, simpler, no shiny spots, it's war tool. There is a very good picture of the braided wrapping material that should be expected, not as Oz kindly pointed out, old shoestrings or paracord kernmantle.

Wearing it on your belt hanging from that stuff will likely cause it to fall butt first to the ground and if you were lucky you'd impale yourself to keep from grieving over buying this sword like object. If you were really lucky, the next buyer will have this happen and not you!

Summary:

1. Conflict between dates on fittings and appurtenances.
2. Ghastly blade, wrong construction
3. Most parts are inconsistent with typical Japanese construction and craftsmanship
4. Features like writing on the wrong surfaces, see habaki
5. Martial artists will see things wrong without even looking at the blade.
6. The assumption that a greedy buyer won't take the time to pay attention.

This will be the most important 250 USD you have ever saved.

What I should be charging the Chinese company who makes these things for advice on what they should be doing...priceless. Where's the MasterCard smilie?

I think I got the high points. I know a fellow who could to a power point lecture for probably two hours on this subject alone.

Wow thankyou very much. That is way more info than I could Find from google in several hours of research. I am like #6 in your post just a newbie who thought it looked authentic.

I will use your post as a guide in the future. Honestly I don't understand most of what you said but understand enough to know that you know what you are talking about. Thank you very much.

FyI here is the part I left out because I wanted the experts like those above to give an opinion from the photos ony not on what I am about to tell you. .....

I just left china and these photos were taken in a Chinese antique mall. Which was my first clue that I should not purchase it. But even to me someone who only knows google research of swords. It looked real to me. I almost purchased it. Glad I did not...and thanks to you guys I am very glad....

Aside from the technical stuff real swords like that cost several thousands of dollars for the simplest. I know every antiquer dreams of going into a store and finding a Picasso for ten bucks but the chances of that happening are past astronomical.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Aside from the technical stuff real swords like that cost several thousands of dollars for the simplest. I know every antiquer dreams of going into a store and finding a Picasso for ten bucks but the chances of that happening are past astronomical.

But it does happen. If you don't look you won't find them though.

Originally Posted by sidmind

But it does happen. If you don't look you won't find them though.

It was more likely to happen in the 70s-80s when every army disposal store had wall to wall katana. These days...